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Our technophilia often blinds of from this, even in the US. Techno-optimism is basically a cult that says all our woes can be solved with engineering rather tha

Our technophilia often blinds of from this, even in the US. Techno-optimism is basically a cult that says all our woes can be solved with engineering rather than social effort. Climate change, wealth inequality, etc will not be solved with technology. They will be solved with sweat effort and social change. To believe anything else is delusional.

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
Yes. “I have a startup that’ll change the world with our SaaS product!” has really rotted peoples brains on this website.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  I've beendownvoted into oblivion on this website for arguing with crypto pundits who were preaching here how much Bitcoin will save the poorest countries from poverty.
- ecshafer 2y ago
  I never liked the "Change the world" rhetoric. Give me "We think this is an untapped market, with a good chance to make a nice business out of".
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I always felt that was more or less a religion sold to engineers in order to get them to work on whatever meaningless tech product du jour was used to extract money from some VC or other. Some would say I'm a miserable cynic though.
SoftTalker 2y ago
> sweat effort and social change Is that a euphemism for war?
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Social change can come from votes or revolutions, but usually the latter.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    Sound unpleasant. Let's avoid social change. Sometimes it comes from tech advances, though, I'm pretty sure.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      Can't be sure if that's sarcasm or not.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        I can at least sympathize with the notion. Social revolutions and upheavals are always going to be unpleasant regardless of the means and ends and some people are simply content with the way things are.
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        > Social revolutions and upheavals are always going to be unpleasant Removing the rot is always going to be painful for some (usually the current ruling and asset owning class). And almost everything rots with time. More food delivery start-ups aren't going to improve that. Those who believe in technology (usually web stuff) being the miracle salvation are those who have it very good anyway and see no need to change but your poverty stricken people can't eat apps, but they can eat you on your way to work.
foobarian 2y ago
That may be true to an extent, but at the same time technology should get a lot of credit for civilization improvements such as near extinction of slavery in the West once machinery became cheaper/more productive than manual labor. In case of climate change, perhaps technology is not the complete solution. But again money talks, and if technology can result in availability of cheaper and more environmentally friendly inventions, it can help a great deal. Case in point, many new power plants across the world are built using solar/wind presumably because of lower cost, not out of some altruistic concern for the environment.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >but at the same time technology should get a lot of credit for civilization improvements such as near extinction of slavery in the West once machinery became cheaper/more productive than manual labor. When people on this site talk about "tech", they don't mean something on labor saving machinery for humanity as most of the low hanging fruit there has been picked decades ago, but more on the spectrum of which new VC funded app can make the most lucrative exit, using the $CURRENT_DAY hype like blockchain or AI. Sure, new and more advanced machinery is coming out, like ASML's stuff, but those ASSML steppers aren't saving people from hard labor, starvation or poverty, like the mining or agricultural machines for a century ago.
CM30 2y ago
To be fair, for climate change a technological solution is probably the more practical one, since people are unlikely to go against their own interests for the greater good. Much easier to have renewable energy and electric cars and geoengineering than to try and encourage/force the entire world to change their lifestyle.

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago

Yes. “I have a startup that’ll change the world with our SaaS product!” has really rotted peoples brains on this website.

Rinzler89 2y ago
I've beendownvoted into oblivion on this website for arguing with crypto pundits who were preaching here how much Bitcoin will save the poorest countries from poverty.
ecshafer 2y ago
I never liked the "Change the world" rhetoric. Give me "We think this is an untapped market, with a good chance to make a nice business out of".
silverquiet 2y ago
I always felt that was more or less a religion sold to engineers in order to get them to work on whatever meaningless tech product du jour was used to extract money from some VC or other. Some would say I'm a miserable cynic though.

SoftTalker 2y ago

> sweat effort and social change Is that a euphemism for war?

Rinzler89 2y ago
Social change can come from votes or revolutions, but usually the latter.
- card_zero 2y ago
  Sound unpleasant. Let's avoid social change. Sometimes it comes from tech advances, though, I'm pretty sure.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Can't be sure if that's sarcasm or not.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      I can at least sympathize with the notion. Social revolutions and upheavals are always going to be unpleasant regardless of the means and ends and some people are simply content with the way things are.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        > Social revolutions and upheavals are always going to be unpleasant Removing the rot is always going to be painful for some (usually the current ruling and asset owning class). And almost everything rots with time. More food delivery start-ups aren't going to improve that. Those who believe in technology (usually web stuff) being the miracle salvation are those who have it very good anyway and see no need to change but your poverty stricken people can't eat apps, but they can eat you on your way to work.

foobarian 2y ago

That may be true to an extent, but at the same time technology should get a lot of credit for civilization improvements such as near extinction of slavery in the West once machinery became cheaper/more productive than manual labor. In case of climate change, perhaps technology is not the complete solution. But again money talks, and if technology can result in availability of cheaper and more environmentally friendly inventions, it can help a great deal. Case in point, many new power plants across the world are built using solar/wind presumably because of lower cost, not out of some altruistic concern for the environment.

Rinzler89 2y ago
>but at the same time technology should get a lot of credit for civilization improvements such as near extinction of slavery in the West once machinery became cheaper/more productive than manual labor. When people on this site talk about "tech", they don't mean something on labor saving machinery for humanity as most of the low hanging fruit there has been picked decades ago, but more on the spectrum of which new VC funded app can make the most lucrative exit, using the $CURRENT_DAY hype like blockchain or AI. Sure, new and more advanced machinery is coming out, like ASML's stuff, but those ASSML steppers aren't saving people from hard labor, starvation or poverty, like the mining or agricultural machines for a century ago.

CM30 2y ago

To be fair, for climate change a technological solution is probably the more practical one, since people are unlikely to go against their own interests for the greater good. Much easier to have renewable energy and electric cars and geoengineering than to try and encourage/force the entire world to change their lifestyle.