10 ms·

"Go slow, and fix things." Stark contrast from the core attitude of mainstream extractive tech work, and a necessary ethos amid a growing storm of complexity t

by gmd63 2y ago

"Go slow, and fix things." Stark contrast from the core attitude of mainstream extractive tech work, and a necessary ethos amid a growing storm of complexity that humanity increasingly depends on We are trying to go slow and fix things biologically that our natural evolution has left us vulnerable to. Cancer, prion diseases, etc. Yet we have resigned the evolution of information tech over to God as we haphazardly race in a survival of the "financially fittest" sort of contest, rewarding the companies that win at financial selection

vinnyvichy 2y ago
In this respect, their page for hacking baguettes by sun&sea is my personal favourite https://100r.co/site/solar_cooking_experiment.html https://100r.co/site/solar_cooking_experiment.html 100Rabbits is like the coming true of Grothendieck's 1972 permatech lecture given at CERN* https://github.com/Lapin0t/grothendieck-cern https://github.com/Lapin0t/grothendieck-cern >"I think that agriculture, stockbreeding, decentralized energy production, medicine of a certain kind, very different from the medicine that prevails today, will come to the fore. It's impossible to say which part purely creative joy will play in these new developments. My hope is, it will be a creative development in which there will be no essential difference between conceptual activities and manual physical activities. When people become masters of their own needs to the point where an appreciable part of their creativity remains free---and this will take a time we can't predict, it may be a generation, it may be ten, no one knows---at that point, anyone, not just a certain scientific elite, will be able to devote a significant part of their time to purely creative, purely speculative, purely playful research" *which I (or 1 of you?!) will post soon (Thanks Bluestein for showing the best time to post this stuff!)
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  > When people become masters of their own needs to the point where an appreciable part of their creativity remains free... compare with VADM EJK ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41144977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41144977 ): > It is essential to extend the knowledge and the practice of "initiative of the subordinate" in principle and in application until they are universal in the exercise of command throughout all echelons of command. (with Grothendieck being a little more optimistic than King, as the latter stops short of pushing universal initiative all the way to the bluejacket)
  - vinnyvichy 2y ago
    Thanks for the details in philosophical provenance point-out! I will return to the other thread when I've completed current round of debugging local firmware :) Let's just say subordinate can be replaced by "peers" above WLOG,ala Gr
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      Preorders* are reflexive and transitive, but not necessarily either symmetric or antisymmetric. (eg european languages that make a T/V distinction have shifted from antisymmetric to symmetric use) * and hence finite topologies, a class to which any social topology belongs?
- Bluestein 2y ago
  Thank you, au contraire, for that wonderful link in your comment, and that marvelous quote, and your thoughts.-
- gvicino 2y ago
  Hello, Thank you for the link you've shared. I read it with great interest. While I can conceive that the aforementioned areas might survive in a post-industrial civilization, it is unclear to me how the technology that 100rabbits is researching could do the same. They might use Raspberry Pis or old PCs donated by others, but: - these are impossible to manufacture without industries, and they are limited in number - the only means of communication they're using to share their work, the Internet, inherently requires an industrial society to exist This seems somewhat akin to the naive reaction to the financial crises we experienced a few years ago: "Oh dear, banks and finance can be evil, let's decentralize with Bitcoin." I believe that we cannot address the problems that technology has brought us (nuclear weapons, global warming) without resorting once again to technology and science. This technology and science must necessarily be funded by the market.
  - CapstanRoller 2y ago
    >This technology and science must necessarily be funded by the market. Why?
    - gvicino 2y ago
      We are a planet of 8 billion people. Through what other supply model could we ensure the production of computers and technology for everyone (or even just for some) if not the market? Here I found an infographic that shows how the supply chain for the production of a PC works: https://scmresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/supply_chain_of_a_computer.png https://scmresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/supply_ch... This also applies to science. The Covid pandemic is almost certainly a result of global warming caused by human activities, but the vaccine for Covid was found thanks to a shared effort of humanity, encouraged by both government policies and, above all, the profit of pharmaceutical companies. I am well aware of all the flaws of capitalism, but I can't understand how we can have an "information age" without a market. We can try to reduce our impact, learn to decentralize, learn to fix things that break (all things I personally do), but I can't envision a decentralized technological and scientific world that wouldn't set us back 300 years.
mihaaly 2y ago
> a growing storm of complexity that humanity increasingly depends on Yet real engineers ought to now that “An engineer has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but nothing left to take away”. ... or they never new and yet attempting engineering anyway? Growing portion of my life is spending time with the complexity of toolchain and work context, while my outcome diminishes in every sense, amount and importance. Pissing into the headwind and getting almost nothing to show for kind of feeling. More and more draws me towards the lifestyle of the rabbits (stopping somewhere in between though). Btw. financial selection is the way how society work on top of finite resources since ancient times. That's part of the game. ... saying so while I ferociously avoid competition steering into directions that circumnavigate the competing crowd, taking less busy alternative route. When available.
- sgu999 2y ago
  > financial selection is the way how society work on top of finite resources since ancient times I don't know where you get that from, but if anything it looks like there has never been a single society but many forms of organisation. I'd be even more careful with any reference to finance in that context. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawn_of_Everything https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawn_of_Everything
  - mihaaly 2y ago
    > there has never been a single society but many forms of organisation Single society? ... where that came from and who brought it here, apart from you of course? Collaborative large human groups where division of labour is an intrinsic matter is referred simplisticly as society. No elaborated and complete study was the goal here to give complete picture of the matter but a short referral to the inherent competitive need, as part of the story. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-FUCK-are-talking-about/dp/B08X63B722 https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-FUCK-are-talking-about/dp/B08X... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money
    - sgu999 2y ago
Bluestein 2y ago
> amid a growing storm of complexity I value your way of putting it. "Storm" carries with it all due nuances and, indeed, "complexity" is a touchstone.-

by gmd63 2y ago

vinnyvichy 2y ago

In this respect, their page for hacking baguettes by sun&sea is my personal favourite https://100r.co/site/solar_cooking_experiment.html https://100r.co/site/solar_cooking_experiment.html 100Rabbits is like the coming true of Grothendieck's 1972 permatech lecture given at CERN* https://github.com/Lapin0t/grothendieck-cern https://github.com/Lapin0t/grothendieck-cern >"I think that agriculture, stockbreeding, decentralized energy production, medicine of a certain kind, very different from the medicine that prevails today, will come to the fore. It's impossible to say which part purely creative joy will play in these new developments. My hope is, it will be a creative development in which there will be no essential difference between conceptual activities and manual physical activities. When people become masters of their own needs to the point where an appreciable part of their creativity remains free---and this will take a time we can't predict, it may be a generation, it may be ten, no one knows---at that point, anyone, not just a certain scientific elite, will be able to devote a significant part of their time to purely creative, purely speculative, purely playful research" *which I (or 1 of you?!) will post soon (Thanks Bluestein for showing the best time to post this stuff!)

082349872349872 2y ago
> When people become masters of their own needs to the point where an appreciable part of their creativity remains free... compare with VADM EJK ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41144977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41144977 ): > It is essential to extend the knowledge and the practice of "initiative of the subordinate" in principle and in application until they are universal in the exercise of command throughout all echelons of command. (with Grothendieck being a little more optimistic than King, as the latter stops short of pushing universal initiative all the way to the bluejacket)
- vinnyvichy 2y ago
  Thanks for the details in philosophical provenance point-out! I will return to the other thread when I've completed current round of debugging local firmware :) Let's just say subordinate can be replaced by "peers" above WLOG,ala Gr
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    Preorders* are reflexive and transitive, but not necessarily either symmetric or antisymmetric. (eg european languages that make a T/V distinction have shifted from antisymmetric to symmetric use) * and hence finite topologies, a class to which any social topology belongs?
Bluestein 2y ago
Thank you, au contraire, for that wonderful link in your comment, and that marvelous quote, and your thoughts.-
gvicino 2y ago
Hello, Thank you for the link you've shared. I read it with great interest. While I can conceive that the aforementioned areas might survive in a post-industrial civilization, it is unclear to me how the technology that 100rabbits is researching could do the same. They might use Raspberry Pis or old PCs donated by others, but: - these are impossible to manufacture without industries, and they are limited in number - the only means of communication they're using to share their work, the Internet, inherently requires an industrial society to exist This seems somewhat akin to the naive reaction to the financial crises we experienced a few years ago: "Oh dear, banks and finance can be evil, let's decentralize with Bitcoin." I believe that we cannot address the problems that technology has brought us (nuclear weapons, global warming) without resorting once again to technology and science. This technology and science must necessarily be funded by the market.
- CapstanRoller 2y ago
  >This technology and science must necessarily be funded by the market. Why?
  - gvicino 2y ago
    We are a planet of 8 billion people. Through what other supply model could we ensure the production of computers and technology for everyone (or even just for some) if not the market? Here I found an infographic that shows how the supply chain for the production of a PC works: https://scmresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/supply_chain_of_a_computer.png https://scmresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/supply_ch... This also applies to science. The Covid pandemic is almost certainly a result of global warming caused by human activities, but the vaccine for Covid was found thanks to a shared effort of humanity, encouraged by both government policies and, above all, the profit of pharmaceutical companies. I am well aware of all the flaws of capitalism, but I can't understand how we can have an "information age" without a market. We can try to reduce our impact, learn to decentralize, learn to fix things that break (all things I personally do), but I can't envision a decentralized technological and scientific world that wouldn't set us back 300 years.

mihaaly 2y ago

> a growing storm of complexity that humanity increasingly depends on Yet real engineers ought to now that “An engineer has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but nothing left to take away”. ... or they never new and yet attempting engineering anyway? Growing portion of my life is spending time with the complexity of toolchain and work context, while my outcome diminishes in every sense, amount and importance. Pissing into the headwind and getting almost nothing to show for kind of feeling. More and more draws me towards the lifestyle of the rabbits (stopping somewhere in between though). Btw. financial selection is the way how society work on top of finite resources since ancient times. That's part of the game. ... saying so while I ferociously avoid competition steering into directions that circumnavigate the competing crowd, taking less busy alternative route. When available.

sgu999 2y ago
> financial selection is the way how society work on top of finite resources since ancient times I don't know where you get that from, but if anything it looks like there has never been a single society but many forms of organisation. I'd be even more careful with any reference to finance in that context. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawn_of_Everything https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawn_of_Everything
- mihaaly 2y ago
  > there has never been a single society but many forms of organisation Single society? ... where that came from and who brought it here, apart from you of course? Collaborative large human groups where division of labour is an intrinsic matter is referred simplisticly as society. No elaborated and complete study was the goal here to give complete picture of the matter but a short referral to the inherent competitive need, as part of the story. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-FUCK-are-talking-about/dp/B08X63B722 https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-FUCK-are-talking-about/dp/B08X... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money
  - sgu999 2y ago

Bluestein 2y ago

> amid a growing storm of complexity I value your way of putting it. "Storm" carries with it all due nuances and, indeed, "complexity" is a touchstone.-