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The algorithm isn’t outlawed. It’s called YieldStar. I’m sure it is very clever. What is illegal is collusion, which means using a third party to dictate prices

The algorithm isn’t outlawed. It’s called YieldStar. I’m sure it is very clever. What is illegal is collusion, which means using a third party to dictate prices rather than the market. That third party can be a person or an algorithm or an ancient papyrus scroll, it doesn’t matter.

pjkundert 2y ago
"dictate". I think that word doesn't mean what you think it means. If I, as a property holder, personally decide to use some mechanism to assist me in reaching a price for my product, that is fine -- even if you don't like it. If I, as a property holder, meet with all of my fellow property owners and collude to set a market price (eliminating competition), that is not fine -- that is collusion. Are you claiming that all property holders are literally colluding to establish a price that eliminates a market price? That there are literally no people who decide to set other prices for equivalent products in that market? If everyone in a market decides (with the help of a program, or because they can do basic mathematics) to set a higher price, and some people, like, just read the "for rent" adds and set similar prices -- that they are, literally colluding to set prices? Because that sounds crazy. What this actually seems to be is the market establishing a price based on common knowledge. If crazy banksters and treasury-looting politicians decide to cause massive inflation, crash the house building industry, and higher rent prices are one (obvious) result, I think we should perhaps look to the root cause -- not accuse some poor slobs reading data from a spreadsheet and setting a rent price that recovers the true rental value of their property, of collusion.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  > personally decide to use some mechanism to assist me in reaching a price for my product, that is fine If that mechanism is a non-competitive price fixing algorithm with access to non-public information then no, it is not fine. Real Page also created work groups to facilitate collusion between apartment managers.
  - pjkundert 2y ago
    "price fixing algorithm"? Wow, that's quite a feat! An algorithm that convinces all individual property owners to collude to set a price? So persuasive, it is, that there are no property owners making things available at differing prices? "access to non-public information"? What, like the market price of your own personal property, and that the algorithm proposes that you should rent it for a price that yields at least the payment of a mortgage on the property! Magic!! Sorcery, I say! This line of reasoning is amazing.

pjkundert 2y ago

"dictate". I think that word doesn't mean what you think it means. If I, as a property holder, personally decide to use some mechanism to assist me in reaching a price for my product, that is fine -- even if you don't like it. If I, as a property holder, meet with all of my fellow property owners and collude to set a market price (eliminating competition), that is not fine -- that is collusion. Are you claiming that all property holders are literally colluding to establish a price that eliminates a market price? That there are literally no people who decide to set other prices for equivalent products in that market? If everyone in a market decides (with the help of a program, or because they can do basic mathematics) to set a higher price, and some people, like, just read the "for rent" adds and set similar prices -- that they are, literally colluding to set prices? Because that sounds crazy. What this actually seems to be is the market establishing a price based on common knowledge. If crazy banksters and treasury-looting politicians decide to cause massive inflation, crash the house building industry, and higher rent prices are one (obvious) result, I think we should perhaps look to the root cause -- not accuse some poor slobs reading data from a spreadsheet and setting a rent price that recovers the true rental value of their property, of collusion.

janalsncm 2y ago
> personally decide to use some mechanism to assist me in reaching a price for my product, that is fine If that mechanism is a non-competitive price fixing algorithm with access to non-public information then no, it is not fine. Real Page also created work groups to facilitate collusion between apartment managers.
- pjkundert 2y ago
  "price fixing algorithm"? Wow, that's quite a feat! An algorithm that convinces all individual property owners to collude to set a price? So persuasive, it is, that there are no property owners making things available at differing prices? "access to non-public information"? What, like the market price of your own personal property, and that the algorithm proposes that you should rent it for a price that yields at least the payment of a mortgage on the property! Magic!! Sorcery, I say! This line of reasoning is amazing.