3 ms·

He and I* Remove "and I" to figure out whether to use He or Him, and remove "He and" to figure out when to use "& I" or "& me".

alecst 2y ago
I always hated this because English is not so simple. To my eye, “me and him went to the store” or “him and me went to the store” both sound good to my ear. But “he and I went to the store” sounds slightly weird, and “I and he went to the store” just sounds awful. Which makes me think this rule is bogus, and that when you compose pronouns with “and”, English actually prefers the object case even when in the subject position. If it were as simple as the rule you suggest, the order of the pronouns would not matter. I’ve also heard people say (e.g.) “he did it with X and I” which makes me think “She and I” in the subject position (for example) is more of a prescriptive grammatical virus than actual English.
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Either form is cromulent as both are historically accurate.
- SeanLuke 2y ago
  Do you have support for this claim? It is pretty extraordinary, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. AFAIK, "Him" has been the accusative (subject) form since at least Old English. https://www.etymonline.com/word/him https://www.etymonline.com/word/him
  - gwd 2y ago
    GP is probably thinking of "My dad and me"; not sure how far back it goes but I've certainly heard it quite a bit from native speakers. You might hear someone say, "Him and me, we go way back", but that's slightly different; but "Him and I" mixes the subject/object case, which must be wrong (and I've never heard before). ETA: I generally don't bother "correcting" the grammar "mistakes" that native speakers make (like "My dad and me did X"); but if I think it's pretty clearly a non-native speaker, I'll correct them, because that's what I would want someone to do for me if I were speaking in their language.
CoastalCoder 2y ago
Friend, I've walked this path ahead of you. I must warn you that it's lonely and, unfulfilling. It's destination is not a house party where everyone was waiting for you're arrival.
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nickburns 2y ago
I would never use an ampersand in either context. I have more style than that. All seriousness though—this pedant appreciates you giving me an English grammar rule to brush up on. My pronoun work has been strictly en el español of late.

alecst 2y ago

I always hated this because English is not so simple. To my eye, “me and him went to the store” or “him and me went to the store” both sound good to my ear. But “he and I went to the store” sounds slightly weird, and “I and he went to the store” just sounds awful. Which makes me think this rule is bogus, and that when you compose pronouns with “and”, English actually prefers the object case even when in the subject position. If it were as simple as the rule you suggest, the order of the pronouns would not matter. I’ve also heard people say (e.g.) “he did it with X and I” which makes me think “She and I” in the subject position (for example) is more of a prescriptive grammatical virus than actual English.

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago

Either form is cromulent as both are historically accurate.

SeanLuke 2y ago
Do you have support for this claim? It is pretty extraordinary, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. AFAIK, "Him" has been the accusative (subject) form since at least Old English. https://www.etymonline.com/word/him https://www.etymonline.com/word/him
- gwd 2y ago
  GP is probably thinking of "My dad and me"; not sure how far back it goes but I've certainly heard it quite a bit from native speakers. You might hear someone say, "Him and me, we go way back", but that's slightly different; but "Him and I" mixes the subject/object case, which must be wrong (and I've never heard before). ETA: I generally don't bother "correcting" the grammar "mistakes" that native speakers make (like "My dad and me did X"); but if I think it's pretty clearly a non-native speaker, I'll correct them, because that's what I would want someone to do for me if I were speaking in their language.

CoastalCoder 2y ago

Friend, I've walked this path ahead of you. I must warn you that it's lonely and, unfulfilling. It's destination is not a house party where everyone was waiting for you're arrival.

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nickburns 2y ago

I would never use an ampersand in either context. I have more style than that. All seriousness though—this pedant appreciates you giving me an English grammar rule to brush up on. My pronoun work has been strictly en el español of late.