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The Experiences of U.S. Adults Who Don't Have Children

21 points by sarimkx 2y ago

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
Almost all the reasons apply to me, except that presumably I'm still fertile (for now) Basically grew up in a small isolated nuclear family. Mom and dad hated each other. Dad only wanted one kid and to sleep with other women. Mom wanted to be unhappy and passed that personality trait on to me. My siblings were all older and tried to escape our parents as fast as possible So kinda grew up as an only child with a lot of independence inside the house but nowhere to go and no visible examples of what "normal" families look like Around college one of my siblings had a kid by accident and it was obviously a huge strain on them, financially, mentally, etc. There are some things you simply cannot do once you realize someone is pregnant and keeping it So after college nothing changed. I never developed that healthy adult friendship people talk about having with their families. My parents made no effort to not be cut off, so... I just quit talking to them little by little. We have nothing in common, as if I picked a stranger off the street and tried to befriend them. So now it's like, why? When programming pays great, when there's more hobbies and travel experiences I want, when more money is always nice to have, when there's more people I want to love and I barely even feel like a real adult in my 30s... Why have kids? It would cost me more than I could bear
- nf3 2y ago
  > It would cost me more than I could bear That's one way of looking at it. Parenting had changed me profoundly for the better, and even though I made horrible mistakes as a parent (as most people do I guess) I've also managed to significantly improve many shitty aspects of my personality. I think in parenting most of all you learn to give, without hesitation, without thinking too much, you just give to you kids whatever they demand, out of your unconditional love for them. Besides, if you wish to become a happier person, kids are such an amazing source of joy and hope! Oftentimes kids can see things much more clearly than adults, they have their own kind of intelligence and reasoning and we adults have much to learn from them. There are many more "selfish" reasons to have kids. If you do it right and develop affective relationships with them as they grow up, they'll take good care of you when you grow old and frail, and your grand kids will bring you even more joy and entertainment! I don't think it's much fun to be old and alone...
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    I gotta admit it's tempting. If I 100% knew I didn't want kids I may not come here to argue about it. > I think in parenting most of all you learn to give, without hesitation, without thinking too much, you just give to you kids whatever they demand, out of your unconditional love for them. The thing is, I tried to practice that with my ex-partner, and in the end it did not work. After several years of taking care of them I gave up and we had a divorce that was relatively peaceful except they don't want to stay friends with me, which hurts but is outside my control. I don't know if I want to roll the dice on a kid who never grows up and never stops needing me. Just between you and me, on this anonymous account, most of my potential romantic partners would need someone to take care of them. I don't want to have a kid-kid and an adult kid both needing my constant care in the same household.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Rational and logical choice to make. Congrats on your freedom and self determination, wishing you a great life.
AndrewKemendo 2y ago
Is there any way to have a productive conversation about what we, as a theoretical interdependent society, should do (or not) to encourage (or deter) people from having kids? It’s one of those topics where there’s a lot of data but most people have a position and whatever counter data is provided is typically discarded as irrelevant. For example plenty would argue about whether having a child so “someone takes care of you when you’re older” or “so you’re not lonely” is a valid reason to have a child at all. And on and on with no foundational agreement on what the outcomes or impacts of social demands on major individual life decisions should be promoted or even allowed legally. This is again despite a lot of data about what happens when cultures are either coerced into a fertility management programs (one child program , forced sterilization in the south etc), or let people freely choose and the waxing and waning of populations and societies historically documented since antiquity
- tuatoru 2y ago
  This is a deep question, I think. In the past, children just happened. We no longer have load-bearing conceptual or moral frameworks for thinking about reproduction. Religious leaders have lost their moral authority, if they ever had any. Coercion happens when there are no means of persuasion (except for psychopathic leaders in authoritarian societies, of course: then you get coercion whether or not persuasion is possible). The two standard reasons you list suffer from free-riding. If other people do it, but you don't, you come out ahead. How should that be addressed? Are, indeed, those even valid reasons at all? The same applies to techno-utopian reasons. "Have children because more people means more ideas, and more ideas means more progress". Free-riding problem again. The Ev. Psych. people would say it's a matter of mimesis, or social proof: people have children when they see (respectable) people similar to themselves having children. How far do you go in creating "influencers", then? And to what end? As to how to have the conversation: step one is persuading feminists that this is not a right-wing reactionary issue, code for undoing all the advances in rights that women have so recently won. That's a tall step.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    I think it is simple though. Empower people who don't want to have children to not have them, that is their right. Society can reconfigure itself accordingly based on the outcomes of agency and free will.

21 points by sarimkx 2y ago

Almost all the reasons apply to me, except that presumably I'm still fertile (for now) Basically grew up in a small isolated nuclear family. Mom and dad hated each other. Dad only wanted one kid and to sleep with other women. Mom wanted to be unhappy and passed that personality trait on to me. My siblings were all older and tried to escape our parents as fast as possible So kinda grew up as an only child with a lot of independence inside the house but nowhere to go and no visible examples of what "normal" families look like Around college one of my siblings had a kid by accident and it was obviously a huge strain on them, financially, mentally, etc. There are some things you simply cannot do once you realize someone is pregnant and keeping it So after college nothing changed. I never developed that healthy adult friendship people talk about having with their families. My parents made no effort to not be cut off, so... I just quit talking to them little by little. We have nothing in common, as if I picked a stranger off the street and tried to befriend them. So now it's like, why? When programming pays great, when there's more hobbies and travel experiences I want, when more money is always nice to have, when there's more people I want to love and I barely even feel like a real adult in my 30s... Why have kids? It would cost me more than I could bear

nf3 2y ago
> It would cost me more than I could bear That's one way of looking at it. Parenting had changed me profoundly for the better, and even though I made horrible mistakes as a parent (as most people do I guess) I've also managed to significantly improve many shitty aspects of my personality. I think in parenting most of all you learn to give, without hesitation, without thinking too much, you just give to you kids whatever they demand, out of your unconditional love for them. Besides, if you wish to become a happier person, kids are such an amazing source of joy and hope! Oftentimes kids can see things much more clearly than adults, they have their own kind of intelligence and reasoning and we adults have much to learn from them. There are many more "selfish" reasons to have kids. If you do it right and develop affective relationships with them as they grow up, they'll take good care of you when you grow old and frail, and your grand kids will bring you even more joy and entertainment! I don't think it's much fun to be old and alone...
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  I gotta admit it's tempting. If I 100% knew I didn't want kids I may not come here to argue about it. > I think in parenting most of all you learn to give, without hesitation, without thinking too much, you just give to you kids whatever they demand, out of your unconditional love for them. The thing is, I tried to practice that with my ex-partner, and in the end it did not work. After several years of taking care of them I gave up and we had a divorce that was relatively peaceful except they don't want to stay friends with me, which hurts but is outside my control. I don't know if I want to roll the dice on a kid who never grows up and never stops needing me. Just between you and me, on this anonymous account, most of my potential romantic partners would need someone to take care of them. I don't want to have a kid-kid and an adult kid both needing my constant care in the same household.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Rational and logical choice to make. Congrats on your freedom and self determination, wishing you a great life.

AndrewKemendo 2y ago

Is there any way to have a productive conversation about what we, as a theoretical interdependent society, should do (or not) to encourage (or deter) people from having kids? It’s one of those topics where there’s a lot of data but most people have a position and whatever counter data is provided is typically discarded as irrelevant. For example plenty would argue about whether having a child so “someone takes care of you when you’re older” or “so you’re not lonely” is a valid reason to have a child at all. And on and on with no foundational agreement on what the outcomes or impacts of social demands on major individual life decisions should be promoted or even allowed legally. This is again despite a lot of data about what happens when cultures are either coerced into a fertility management programs (one child program , forced sterilization in the south etc), or let people freely choose and the waxing and waning of populations and societies historically documented since antiquity

tuatoru 2y ago
This is a deep question, I think. In the past, children just happened. We no longer have load-bearing conceptual or moral frameworks for thinking about reproduction. Religious leaders have lost their moral authority, if they ever had any. Coercion happens when there are no means of persuasion (except for psychopathic leaders in authoritarian societies, of course: then you get coercion whether or not persuasion is possible). The two standard reasons you list suffer from free-riding. If other people do it, but you don't, you come out ahead. How should that be addressed? Are, indeed, those even valid reasons at all? The same applies to techno-utopian reasons. "Have children because more people means more ideas, and more ideas means more progress". Free-riding problem again. The Ev. Psych. people would say it's a matter of mimesis, or social proof: people have children when they see (respectable) people similar to themselves having children. How far do you go in creating "influencers", then? And to what end? As to how to have the conversation: step one is persuading feminists that this is not a right-wing reactionary issue, code for undoing all the advances in rights that women have so recently won. That's a tall step.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I think it is simple though. Empower people who don't want to have children to not have them, that is their right. Society can reconfigure itself accordingly based on the outcomes of agency and free will.