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fwiw they actually live on a sailboat and have sporadic internet access and limited electricity, so saying it's retroactive justification isn't really true and

fwiw they actually live on a sailboat and have sporadic internet access and limited electricity, so saying it's retroactive justification isn't really true and minimizes the real problems they face.

mplewis 2y ago
They could solve these problems by not living on a sailboat.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Living on a sailboat approaches some very very hard life/existential pinnacles that most people never even attempt to climb. Yeah, you can have a simple regular life; that's lower on problems maybe. But man, sailing around & futzing with interesting barefoot developers projects sure sounds challenging in a lot of very very excellent ways.
- photonthug 2y ago
  Satellite internet is expensive, let’s all move down town! Housing in the city is expensive, let’s all move to sailboats! So you see at some point you have to address difficulties with some kind of approach besides avoiding them
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  There are solutions you want, and solutions you dont want. Every personal problem has at least one easy solution. better ones take more effort.
- jldugger 2y ago
  "We choose to make this video game and do the boat life thing, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win!"
  - lomase 2y ago
    Living in a boat is not hard.
    - yawpitch 2y ago
      Having spent a pandemic locked down in a boat, I beg to differ.
    - klardotsh 2y ago
      Spoken like someone who has never lived on a boat before. Signed, someone who has lived on a boat before.
      - CamperBob2 2y ago
        Spoken like someone who has never lived on a boat before. Or whose boat came equipped with casinos, an Olympic swimming pool, Michelin-starred restaurants, and somebody else footing the bill.
    - Almondsetat 2y ago
      Sure, if you live on a boathouse on a British river in front of the supermarket
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    Nice JFK you pulled there.-
- smilingsun 2y ago
  It's a bit like saying: People climbing a mountain can solve their mountain-climbing problems by not climbing mountings. Also not unlike: It's not the destination, it's the journey.
  - RamRodification 2y ago
    It's a bit like saying that having to climb mountains is a problem when you choose to be a mountain climber.
Avshalom 2y ago
UXN/Varvava don't do anything about relieving those pain points. WRT electricity it actually adds to the pain.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  I mean its all quite obviously a larp but it's what makes their work interesting.
fao_ 2y ago
> , so saying it's retroactive justification isn't really true and minimizes the real problems they face. I wouldn't call any of the listed problems "real problems" in the context of my long winded disability and homelessness lmao. I used to be in their community, the mods, and indirectly, them, were abusive as hell. Their community is, last I heard, hemorrhaging queer folk (or maybe it's bled dry and queer folk just don't stick around there anymore!) because they have repeatedly shielded abusive members and placed them in positions of power, and ignored, silenced, and ejected their victims when they finally kicked up a fuss about it. Part of the move from an internal chat to Mastodon was specifically so it would take the pressure off them having to actively perform any sort of moderation duty or deal with the abusive people directly. They are, fundamentally, rich people playing at being poor and living in a tiny sustainable island while the rest of the world burns. Their stuff is very interesting, sure, but stating "real problems they face" ignores the fact that every one of the problems they are facing are ones that they themselves have created. I actually really love some of the things they've come out with, but it's important that all of their work comes with the context that it was formed in, at least in my opinion. edit: I forgot about the 'cult' thing... they are absolutely a cult. at least one of their members made explicit reference multiple times to being part of a cult and it was never actively denied outside of a "well, not yet, we don't have the numbers ;)" kind of thing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- strawhatguy 2y ago
  You may be right about all that. Sad to hear, but not altogether unexpected. I'll just point out though that most problems of the world are ones we ourselves have created.
- rrix2 2y ago
  Wow, you're the first person I've seen speak up about having similar experiences with them as me, thank you. I was a merveilles member some years back until I had some really rude/abusive interactions in IRC from Devine and a prominent moderator. I really would love to play with uxn and varvara but gosh I simply refuse to be around people like that.
lannisterstark 2y ago
The problem is that none of their problems are real problems and there's nothing to minimize when they're not real. You cannot minimize made up first world problems
- packetlost 2y ago
  Problems created by lifestyle choices are still real problems.
- ForHackernews 2y ago
  No, they really do live on a sailboat with intermittent power and internet access. Unless you take "made up" to mean "as a result of their choices" these are real problems, and ironically enough not problems faced by most people in the first world. https://checkpointgaming.net/features/2020/05/making-games-at-sea-hundred-rabbits-and-how-they-build-games-by-boat/ https://checkpointgaming.net/features/2020/05/making-games-a...
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    One of the (many) fascinating things here is that - even if by virtue of their 'self-imposed' stringencies - their output showcases production values that are very applicable throughout.-
  - graynk 2y ago
    > Unless you take "made up" to mean "as a result of their choices" Not the original poster, but that’s my view exactly. If you impose the limitations upon yourself then it’s not really a “problem” for you, is it now. You just can afford to make your life shittier for an “experience” to then have fun solving the issues you’ve created for yourself
    - digging 2y ago
      Then say "constraints" if it feels better. To me, this conversation comes off as much more of a manufactured problem than idealistic people living on a boat and figuring out how to make tech work for them. Edit: However, upon reading further comments, I don't want this to be seen as a defense of the group against actual complaints.

fwiw they actually live on a sailboat and have sporadic internet access and limited electricity, so saying it's retroactive justification isn't really true and minimizes the real problems they face.

mplewis 2y ago

They could solve these problems by not living on a sailboat.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Living on a sailboat approaches some very very hard life/existential pinnacles that most people never even attempt to climb. Yeah, you can have a simple regular life; that's lower on problems maybe. But man, sailing around & futzing with interesting barefoot developers projects sure sounds challenging in a lot of very very excellent ways.
photonthug 2y ago
Satellite internet is expensive, let’s all move down town! Housing in the city is expensive, let’s all move to sailboats! So you see at some point you have to address difficulties with some kind of approach besides avoiding them
s1artibartfast 2y ago
There are solutions you want, and solutions you dont want. Every personal problem has at least one easy solution. better ones take more effort.
jldugger 2y ago
"We choose to make this video game and do the boat life thing, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win!"
- lomase 2y ago
  Living in a boat is not hard.
  - yawpitch 2y ago
    Having spent a pandemic locked down in a boat, I beg to differ.
  - klardotsh 2y ago
    Spoken like someone who has never lived on a boat before. Signed, someone who has lived on a boat before.
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Spoken like someone who has never lived on a boat before. Or whose boat came equipped with casinos, an Olympic swimming pool, Michelin-starred restaurants, and somebody else footing the bill.
  - Almondsetat 2y ago
    Sure, if you live on a boathouse on a British river in front of the supermarket
- Bluestein 2y ago
  Nice JFK you pulled there.-
smilingsun 2y ago
It's a bit like saying: People climbing a mountain can solve their mountain-climbing problems by not climbing mountings. Also not unlike: It's not the destination, it's the journey.
- RamRodification 2y ago
  It's a bit like saying that having to climb mountains is a problem when you choose to be a mountain climber.

Avshalom 2y ago

UXN/Varvava don't do anything about relieving those pain points. WRT electricity it actually adds to the pain.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago
I mean its all quite obviously a larp but it's what makes their work interesting.

fao_ 2y ago

> , so saying it's retroactive justification isn't really true and minimizes the real problems they face. I wouldn't call any of the listed problems "real problems" in the context of my long winded disability and homelessness lmao. I used to be in their community, the mods, and indirectly, them, were abusive as hell. Their community is, last I heard, hemorrhaging queer folk (or maybe it's bled dry and queer folk just don't stick around there anymore!) because they have repeatedly shielded abusive members and placed them in positions of power, and ignored, silenced, and ejected their victims when they finally kicked up a fuss about it. Part of the move from an internal chat to Mastodon was specifically so it would take the pressure off them having to actively perform any sort of moderation duty or deal with the abusive people directly. They are, fundamentally, rich people playing at being poor and living in a tiny sustainable island while the rest of the world burns. Their stuff is very interesting, sure, but stating "real problems they face" ignores the fact that every one of the problems they are facing are ones that they themselves have created. I actually really love some of the things they've come out with, but it's important that all of their work comes with the context that it was formed in, at least in my opinion. edit: I forgot about the 'cult' thing... they are absolutely a cult. at least one of their members made explicit reference multiple times to being part of a cult and it was never actively denied outside of a "well, not yet, we don't have the numbers ;)" kind of thing.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
strawhatguy 2y ago
You may be right about all that. Sad to hear, but not altogether unexpected. I'll just point out though that most problems of the world are ones we ourselves have created.
rrix2 2y ago
Wow, you're the first person I've seen speak up about having similar experiences with them as me, thank you. I was a merveilles member some years back until I had some really rude/abusive interactions in IRC from Devine and a prominent moderator. I really would love to play with uxn and varvara but gosh I simply refuse to be around people like that.

lannisterstark 2y ago

The problem is that none of their problems are real problems and there's nothing to minimize when they're not real. You cannot minimize made up first world problems

packetlost 2y ago
Problems created by lifestyle choices are still real problems.
ForHackernews 2y ago
No, they really do live on a sailboat with intermittent power and internet access. Unless you take "made up" to mean "as a result of their choices" these are real problems, and ironically enough not problems faced by most people in the first world. https://checkpointgaming.net/features/2020/05/making-games-at-sea-hundred-rabbits-and-how-they-build-games-by-boat/ https://checkpointgaming.net/features/2020/05/making-games-a...
- Bluestein 2y ago
  One of the (many) fascinating things here is that - even if by virtue of their 'self-imposed' stringencies - their output showcases production values that are very applicable throughout.-
- graynk 2y ago
  > Unless you take "made up" to mean "as a result of their choices" Not the original poster, but that’s my view exactly. If you impose the limitations upon yourself then it’s not really a “problem” for you, is it now. You just can afford to make your life shittier for an “experience” to then have fun solving the issues you’ve created for yourself
  - digging 2y ago
    Then say "constraints" if it feels better. To me, this conversation comes off as much more of a manufactured problem than idealistic people living on a boat and figuring out how to make tech work for them. Edit: However, upon reading further comments, I don't want this to be seen as a defense of the group against actual complaints.