5 ms·

Heh, I guess none of his apple computers are more than a few years old. My 2018 mbp (purchased early in 2019) stopped working in 2023, less than five years old.

Heh, I guess none of his apple computers are more than a few years old. My 2018 mbp (purchased early in 2019) stopped working in 2023, less than five years old. My windows machine from 2016 is still running fine. My son uses it for playing minecraft and other games.

windowsrookie 2y ago
And my 2020 MacBook Air, 2018 MacBook Pro, 2010 iMac, 2008 MacBook Pro all still work fine.
- amlib 2y ago
  But you can't add a modern gpu to an old iMac and still enjoy the latest (and not so "latest") games, nor install a modern wi-fi card on an old macbook and enjoy fast wireless, among many other small upgrades you can do to keep windows/linux computers kicking.
  - exe34 2y ago
    i don't play video games. the WiFi works as fast as my router is able to handle, I have no need for anything faster. do windows people really upgrade hardware every other month like this? what do you do with all the e-waste?
    - amlib 2y ago
      I'm talking about extending the life of a >5 year old machine, not upgrading it every few months. It's pretty common for people to have a, let's say, 10 year old notebook with wifi 4 which could be greatly improved by adding wifi 5 or 6 capability. On a congested place with lots of neighbouring wireless networks where the 2.4ghz band is exhausted all the time your wi-fi could go from 5mbps to 500mbps, it's a BIG deal. Obviously the ability to do that on windows/linux notebooks isn't guaranteed, but it sure as hell is much more common than macbooks.
      - exe34 2y ago
        oh is that 5ghz? I've had that since 2012, before I even had a router that could handle it. I don't think there's much better? anyway, I've never had any issues with the WiFi, I don't see why I'd want to replace it.
      - cassianoleal 2y ago
        Why did you buy a new laptop without 5GHz WiFi in 2019?
  - mikestew 2y ago
    nor install a modern wi-fi card on an old MacBook Your point is taken, but I put a new WiFi card in a 2012 MBP so I could use Airdrop and other newer features that required 802.11ac.
  - windowsrookie 2y ago
    Actually you can add a modern GPU to the old iMacs, they use an MXM GPU. I have upgraded my 2010 iMac to a 2012-era GPU from a Dell laptop to get metal support. I have also upgraded the CPU, Wifi card, and added 32GB of RAM to this 2010 iMac.
- dunham 2y ago
  Yeah, my kid is happily using my old 2012 iMac. (I did replace the hard drive with a SSD). I've also got a 2017 Macbook pro that nobody is using at the moment, but they're happy with the iMac.
- bsder 2y ago
  I'm not saying I don't believe you ... But every single Apple laptop I have owned has required a battery replacement because the LiPol puffed up after 4 years or so. For some reason, I have not had the same battery problems with my Lenovo X1 Carbons.
  - windowsrookie 2y ago
    Apple replaced the battery in my 2018 MacBook Pro under AppleCare. The 2008 MacBook Pro has removable batteries and I have several of them that still last 3+ hours.
- xtiansimon 2y ago
  2013 MBA, 2014 MM are still working and doing useful things in my home network
DaoVeles 2y ago
I do wonder how long many newer units will last. My Mac Pro 2011 only died this year but it was a much more sturdy thing that a lot that have come out since. Only time will tell.
- exe34 2y ago
  I'm still using my Mac book air from 2012. I'm going to cry when that little beast dies.
  - DaoVeles 2y ago
    Mine went in spectacular fashion, plugged a tablet and with the slight extra power demand the entire power system failed. Plug in pow! dead! As it was still running the original hard drive and would heat up a lot underload, it had long been moved out of mission critical use. My daily runners are still 2009 and 2012 Thinkpads - they just wont die!
- themadturk 2y ago
  Still on my M1 MBA (purchased in December 2020), and it shows no sign of giving up the ghost.
taeric 2y ago
My gut is they have far more computers in their fleet than any individual has exposure to? Such that, yes, there will be people that have short life cycles on computers they get. At large, though, anecdotal is very difficult to reason about. That said, I'd be curious on what exact failure you saw? A 2018 model anything should still be running along fine right now.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  An OS update bricked it.
  - taeric 2y ago
    I'm surprised they wouldn't fix that? Was this a widespread fault at the time? I don't recall hearing about bricked machines from an Apple update.
    - withinboredom 2y ago
      Maybe I will take it with me next time I'm in a country with an apple store, but for now, it just sits in a closet.
gjsman-1000 2y ago
Your Windows PC is a statistical anomaly. According to Customer Reports, about 18% of PCs that are not Macs fail within the first 3 years.
- exe34 2y ago
  my experience of macs and observations around me is that they either die the day after the apple care runs out, or you end up replacing them 10-15 years later because you want a new one.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  Hmmm, 82% is not a 'statistical anomaly'.
joshl32532 2y ago
My 2016 Macbook Pro still works fine, albeit slow. Windows laptops (HP, Dell) always crap out for me, except for my Thinkpads that lasted for a while.
readyplayernull 2y ago
Did you upgrade the operating system by any chance? That's how my 2013 Mac became progressively slower, until it died. That said, the M processors have made Intel Macs ridiculously cheap. Recently bought a renewed 2017 Mac for $180 on Amazon.
- windowsrookie 2y ago
  All of my Mac's (even the 2008 model) are running the current version of macOS Sonoma.
hbn 2y ago
On the other hand, I bought a late-2013 MBP in 2014 when I started university and it lasted me through my whole school career and a few years after. It was no longer getting major OS updates but still ran acceptably enough when I replaced it with a 14-inch M1 Pro MBP when those went up for preorder. I don't think I knew a single one of my colleagues who was using a 6-year-old Windows laptop by the time I graduated in 2020. I think Apple had some big reliability problems with their ultra-thin chassis design MacBooks they were selling from like 2016(?) to the design refresh that came with the M1 Pros. Thankfully they went thicker again and both my personal 14-inch and work-provided 16-inch have been fantastic so far. Best laptops I've ever used.
- intothemild 2y ago
  That 2016 era macbooks with the touch bar and horrible keyboard was the reason I ditched macOS and went ThinkPad and Linux. That MacBook Pro lasted 2 months before the spacebar randomly flew off. To get any key fixed, you needed to replace the whole top deck. It was that inbuilt. So the first couple times (yes it happened more than once) I would have a key replacement, I'd lose the laptop for a couple days due to a backlog. This eventually got better. But that laptop was horrible. It also helped me realise that apple tends to be somewhat of a cult.
- upon_drumhead 2y ago
  I'm still rocking a 2012 MBP running Linux
nottorp 2y ago
> My 2018 mbp (purchased early in 2019) stopped working in 2023, less than five years old. 2018 was a bad year :) I had one and besides the keyboard starting to act up at only 2 weeks from purchase, the display cable broke after a few more years. Apparently it was too short by default and thus exposed to too much stress. The 2024 M3 pro seems just fine though. I guess because it's not thin. So do the 2009 mb white and 2013 mbpro. They're still working perfectly. So as long as Cook takes his dried frog pills in time and doesn't fantasise about thin devices, we'll be fine.
runjake 2y ago
The Delta CEO is referring to the software, not the hardware. But main point aside, I'd agree that I get more longevity out of my modular PC hardware over my Mac hardware, although my oldest running hardware right now is a 2011 Mac Mini.
- kamaal 2y ago
  Software and Hardware go hand in hand though. You could replace the back cover and screen guard of a 10 yr old iPhone and it feels right out of the store. I have had only one iPhone since 10 yrs and that says something. That sort of experience comes when you have holistic focus on the quality. You need to put in deep care and work for the smallest things from screws and gaskets to long term software stability.
gtvwill 2y ago
Lol I just had the pleasure of trying to get a 2012 Mac reset for a client. Reset device > device blocked from internet because Apple deems its os/software unsafe > Can't access app store to update device to safe/up to date os > have to manual download install for midway update > then update via app store to current distro. Absolutely nightmare. Zero info from apple that this was the upgrade path/how it had to be done. Psychotic. Huge reminder why I generally reject all apple work. Company is a nightmare to service machines for. Also lol the 2012 intel Mac was being repurposed because the 2 year old Mac airs battery was rooted and it worked worse than the 2012 rig. Both lived their lives permanently plugged in like desktops being used for web browsing and email.
- CharlesW 2y ago
  > Reset device > device blocked from internet because Apple deems its os/software unsafe > Can't access app store to update device to safe/up to date os… If this ever happens again, Mist is the best way to grab whatever macOS you need: https://github.com/ninxsoft/Mist https://github.com/ninxsoft/Mist For example, a 2012 iMac supports up to macOS Big Sur, so using Mist you can easily create an 11.7.10 bootable installer. https://imgur.com/a/KEDBSRY https://imgur.com/a/KEDBSRY If you want to use newer version of macOS than Apple supported, OpenCore Legacy Patcher has worked very well for me. https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
  - jasomill 2y ago
    I can second OCLP — I've been running Sonoma on my daily-driver 2013 Mac Pro for the better part of a year (currently running 14.6), and with the exception of a minor graphical glitch (bits of the menu bar occasionally turn red until I switch applications) and Google Chrome not working with GPU rasterization enabled, it's been flawless.
nextos 2y ago
In my house we have 3 Macs: A MacBook (2007), a MacBook Pro (2009, the first unibody model) and a MacBook Air 11 (late 2012). The only hardware failure in all this time came from the MBA. The SSD got loose, but it was easy to fix. All of them still work fine. The MBP gets used daily. So that's 15 years of daily use with zero issues. I dislike where macOS is going. In fact, 2/3 of my machines run Linux. But Apple hardware is pretty good, rugged and silent. I hate laptops that sound like hairdyers. I wish there were other manufacturers that had a similar focus on quality. Perhaps Framework might be one to keep an eye on. Some ThinkPads are great, but they churn out way too many models and thus lack attention to detail. Plus, in EU sales and customer care have been outsourced. Prices are crazy and they are super hard to deal with.
Eric_WVGG 2y ago
I just upgraded my father's 2012 Macbook Air to Monterey. Anecdata isn't worth much.
kjsingh 2y ago
my laptop from 2010 still runs - albeit only used for Fallout Shelter and web games
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
drivingmenuts 2y ago
I once worked with a woman who when through three different MacBook Pro's in one year. I still have no idea what the hell was going on there. I've never seen anything like since then, so maybe she just had whatever the opposite of a magic touch is.
jnaina 2y ago
My 2005 Mac Mini 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 still works. So does my 2006 Power Mac G5. Including the recapped Mac 512K. I am both a PC and Mac user, with quite a bit of hardware over the last 20+ years. For me, my Macs typically have out lasted my PCs, with minimal quality and support issues. Almost all my old Macs which I collect (over 15, including Mac LC, Mac IIci, original MacBook Air, numerous MacBooks and iMacs and a Macintosh Lisa, all work).

windowsrookie 2y ago

And my 2020 MacBook Air, 2018 MacBook Pro, 2010 iMac, 2008 MacBook Pro all still work fine.

amlib 2y ago
But you can't add a modern gpu to an old iMac and still enjoy the latest (and not so "latest") games, nor install a modern wi-fi card on an old macbook and enjoy fast wireless, among many other small upgrades you can do to keep windows/linux computers kicking.
- exe34 2y ago
  i don't play video games. the WiFi works as fast as my router is able to handle, I have no need for anything faster. do windows people really upgrade hardware every other month like this? what do you do with all the e-waste?
  - amlib 2y ago
    I'm talking about extending the life of a >5 year old machine, not upgrading it every few months. It's pretty common for people to have a, let's say, 10 year old notebook with wifi 4 which could be greatly improved by adding wifi 5 or 6 capability. On a congested place with lots of neighbouring wireless networks where the 2.4ghz band is exhausted all the time your wi-fi could go from 5mbps to 500mbps, it's a BIG deal. Obviously the ability to do that on windows/linux notebooks isn't guaranteed, but it sure as hell is much more common than macbooks.
    - exe34 2y ago
      oh is that 5ghz? I've had that since 2012, before I even had a router that could handle it. I don't think there's much better? anyway, I've never had any issues with the WiFi, I don't see why I'd want to replace it.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      Why did you buy a new laptop without 5GHz WiFi in 2019?
- mikestew 2y ago
  nor install a modern wi-fi card on an old MacBook Your point is taken, but I put a new WiFi card in a 2012 MBP so I could use Airdrop and other newer features that required 802.11ac.
- windowsrookie 2y ago
  Actually you can add a modern GPU to the old iMacs, they use an MXM GPU. I have upgraded my 2010 iMac to a 2012-era GPU from a Dell laptop to get metal support. I have also upgraded the CPU, Wifi card, and added 32GB of RAM to this 2010 iMac.
dunham 2y ago
Yeah, my kid is happily using my old 2012 iMac. (I did replace the hard drive with a SSD). I've also got a 2017 Macbook pro that nobody is using at the moment, but they're happy with the iMac.
bsder 2y ago
I'm not saying I don't believe you ... But every single Apple laptop I have owned has required a battery replacement because the LiPol puffed up after 4 years or so. For some reason, I have not had the same battery problems with my Lenovo X1 Carbons.
- windowsrookie 2y ago
  Apple replaced the battery in my 2018 MacBook Pro under AppleCare. The 2008 MacBook Pro has removable batteries and I have several of them that still last 3+ hours.
xtiansimon 2y ago
2013 MBA, 2014 MM are still working and doing useful things in my home network

DaoVeles 2y ago

I do wonder how long many newer units will last. My Mac Pro 2011 only died this year but it was a much more sturdy thing that a lot that have come out since. Only time will tell.

exe34 2y ago
I'm still using my Mac book air from 2012. I'm going to cry when that little beast dies.
- DaoVeles 2y ago
  Mine went in spectacular fashion, plugged a tablet and with the slight extra power demand the entire power system failed. Plug in pow! dead! As it was still running the original hard drive and would heat up a lot underload, it had long been moved out of mission critical use. My daily runners are still 2009 and 2012 Thinkpads - they just wont die!
themadturk 2y ago
Still on my M1 MBA (purchased in December 2020), and it shows no sign of giving up the ghost.

taeric 2y ago

My gut is they have far more computers in their fleet than any individual has exposure to? Such that, yes, there will be people that have short life cycles on computers they get. At large, though, anecdotal is very difficult to reason about. That said, I'd be curious on what exact failure you saw? A 2018 model anything should still be running along fine right now.

withinboredom 2y ago
An OS update bricked it.
- taeric 2y ago
  I'm surprised they wouldn't fix that? Was this a widespread fault at the time? I don't recall hearing about bricked machines from an Apple update.
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    Maybe I will take it with me next time I'm in a country with an apple store, but for now, it just sits in a closet.

gjsman-1000 2y ago

Your Windows PC is a statistical anomaly. According to Customer Reports, about 18% of PCs that are not Macs fail within the first 3 years.

exe34 2y ago
my experience of macs and observations around me is that they either die the day after the apple care runs out, or you end up replacing them 10-15 years later because you want a new one.
withinboredom 2y ago
Hmmm, 82% is not a 'statistical anomaly'.

joshl32532 2y ago

My 2016 Macbook Pro still works fine, albeit slow. Windows laptops (HP, Dell) always crap out for me, except for my Thinkpads that lasted for a while.

readyplayernull 2y ago

Did you upgrade the operating system by any chance? That's how my 2013 Mac became progressively slower, until it died. That said, the M processors have made Intel Macs ridiculously cheap. Recently bought a renewed 2017 Mac for $180 on Amazon.

windowsrookie 2y ago
All of my Mac's (even the 2008 model) are running the current version of macOS Sonoma.

hbn 2y ago

On the other hand, I bought a late-2013 MBP in 2014 when I started university and it lasted me through my whole school career and a few years after. It was no longer getting major OS updates but still ran acceptably enough when I replaced it with a 14-inch M1 Pro MBP when those went up for preorder. I don't think I knew a single one of my colleagues who was using a 6-year-old Windows laptop by the time I graduated in 2020. I think Apple had some big reliability problems with their ultra-thin chassis design MacBooks they were selling from like 2016(?) to the design refresh that came with the M1 Pros. Thankfully they went thicker again and both my personal 14-inch and work-provided 16-inch have been fantastic so far. Best laptops I've ever used.

intothemild 2y ago
That 2016 era macbooks with the touch bar and horrible keyboard was the reason I ditched macOS and went ThinkPad and Linux. That MacBook Pro lasted 2 months before the spacebar randomly flew off. To get any key fixed, you needed to replace the whole top deck. It was that inbuilt. So the first couple times (yes it happened more than once) I would have a key replacement, I'd lose the laptop for a couple days due to a backlog. This eventually got better. But that laptop was horrible. It also helped me realise that apple tends to be somewhat of a cult.
upon_drumhead 2y ago
I'm still rocking a 2012 MBP running Linux

nottorp 2y ago

> My 2018 mbp (purchased early in 2019) stopped working in 2023, less than five years old. 2018 was a bad year :) I had one and besides the keyboard starting to act up at only 2 weeks from purchase, the display cable broke after a few more years. Apparently it was too short by default and thus exposed to too much stress. The 2024 M3 pro seems just fine though. I guess because it's not thin. So do the 2009 mb white and 2013 mbpro. They're still working perfectly. So as long as Cook takes his dried frog pills in time and doesn't fantasise about thin devices, we'll be fine.

runjake 2y ago

The Delta CEO is referring to the software, not the hardware. But main point aside, I'd agree that I get more longevity out of my modular PC hardware over my Mac hardware, although my oldest running hardware right now is a 2011 Mac Mini.

kamaal 2y ago
Software and Hardware go hand in hand though. You could replace the back cover and screen guard of a 10 yr old iPhone and it feels right out of the store. I have had only one iPhone since 10 yrs and that says something. That sort of experience comes when you have holistic focus on the quality. You need to put in deep care and work for the smallest things from screws and gaskets to long term software stability.

gtvwill 2y ago

Lol I just had the pleasure of trying to get a 2012 Mac reset for a client. Reset device > device blocked from internet because Apple deems its os/software unsafe > Can't access app store to update device to safe/up to date os > have to manual download install for midway update > then update via app store to current distro. Absolutely nightmare. Zero info from apple that this was the upgrade path/how it had to be done. Psychotic. Huge reminder why I generally reject all apple work. Company is a nightmare to service machines for. Also lol the 2012 intel Mac was being repurposed because the 2 year old Mac airs battery was rooted and it worked worse than the 2012 rig. Both lived their lives permanently plugged in like desktops being used for web browsing and email.

CharlesW 2y ago
> Reset device > device blocked from internet because Apple deems its os/software unsafe > Can't access app store to update device to safe/up to date os… If this ever happens again, Mist is the best way to grab whatever macOS you need: https://github.com/ninxsoft/Mist https://github.com/ninxsoft/Mist For example, a 2012 iMac supports up to macOS Big Sur, so using Mist you can easily create an 11.7.10 bootable installer. https://imgur.com/a/KEDBSRY https://imgur.com/a/KEDBSRY If you want to use newer version of macOS than Apple supported, OpenCore Legacy Patcher has worked very well for me. https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
- jasomill 2y ago
  I can second OCLP — I've been running Sonoma on my daily-driver 2013 Mac Pro for the better part of a year (currently running 14.6), and with the exception of a minor graphical glitch (bits of the menu bar occasionally turn red until I switch applications) and Google Chrome not working with GPU rasterization enabled, it's been flawless.

nextos 2y ago

In my house we have 3 Macs: A MacBook (2007), a MacBook Pro (2009, the first unibody model) and a MacBook Air 11 (late 2012). The only hardware failure in all this time came from the MBA. The SSD got loose, but it was easy to fix. All of them still work fine. The MBP gets used daily. So that's 15 years of daily use with zero issues. I dislike where macOS is going. In fact, 2/3 of my machines run Linux. But Apple hardware is pretty good, rugged and silent. I hate laptops that sound like hairdyers. I wish there were other manufacturers that had a similar focus on quality. Perhaps Framework might be one to keep an eye on. Some ThinkPads are great, but they churn out way too many models and thus lack attention to detail. Plus, in EU sales and customer care have been outsourced. Prices are crazy and they are super hard to deal with.

Eric_WVGG 2y ago

I just upgraded my father's 2012 Macbook Air to Monterey. Anecdata isn't worth much.

kjsingh 2y ago

my laptop from 2010 still runs - albeit only used for Fallout Shelter and web games

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

drivingmenuts 2y ago

I once worked with a woman who when through three different MacBook Pro's in one year. I still have no idea what the hell was going on there. I've never seen anything like since then, so maybe she just had whatever the opposite of a magic touch is.

jnaina 2y ago

My 2005 Mac Mini 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 still works. So does my 2006 Power Mac G5. Including the recapped Mac 512K. I am both a PC and Mac user, with quite a bit of hardware over the last 20+ years. For me, my Macs typically have out lasted my PCs, with minimal quality and support issues. Almost all my old Macs which I collect (over 15, including Mac LC, Mac IIci, original MacBook Air, numerous MacBooks and iMacs and a Macintosh Lisa, all work).