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> The fact that people who are spending too much money on food would spend even more money to buy a weight-loss drug rather than get their food-intake under con

> The fact that people who are spending too much money on food would spend even more money to buy a weight-loss drug rather than get their food-intake under control, saving money, is an indictment of our species if I've ever seen one. This is needlessly judgmental. This drug reduces the impulse to eat when you're not actually hungry. We need to think about obesity as more than just a lack of self control - normal people don't have the impulse to eat all of the time, and this stuff just brings you to that baseline. The weight loss is literally a side effect of the drug.

xenospn 2y ago
If you’re in the US, normal is actually overweight and constantly eating.
BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
> We need to think about obesity as more than just a lack of self control Do we? I've seen no stats and received no reasons to believe that the majority of obese people have such a distorted appetite that lack of willpower can't be inferred from their state. Also, exercise exists, even for large eaters. But as always, I don't expect HN (like most places full of Overton prisoners) to react well to the now heretical notion that responsibility is more than a social construct and that the new religion of hedonism is wrong and destructive.
- astrange 2y ago
  Exercise isn't an effective method of weight loss. Naturally having a labor intensive job can be, but it's basically a waste of time to try and exercise something off when it would've been better to not eat it. Anyway, "lack of willpower" isn't a cause nor does it fit the evidence very well. For instance, obesity in the US is geographical, correlated with lower altitudes[0], and it happens to animals as well as humans[1]. (Hint: it's caused by pollutants.) [0] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0093493 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [1] https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspb.2010.1890 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspb.2010...
  - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
    Chinese large cities are way more polluted than in the US yet they aren't particularly known for their obesity issues. As usual, correlation isn't causation and my best bet is that there are more cities at lower altitude, which means more sedentary and/or "Western" urban way of life (including eating bad food in too large quantities and office jobs). Anyway, I don't think that anyone rational and arguing in good faith can say that low willpower isn't the predominant ingredient in the 1st world's obesity crisis. Especially anyone coming from said 1st world and having interacted with some of the "victims".
    - astrange 2y ago
      I actually linked a quasi-experimental paper that does show causation. > "Western" urban way of life (including eating bad food in too large quantities and office jobs). The issue is "too large quantities". What's the cause of that? It's been available for much longer than Americans have been obese. Asians work longer hours, probably drink more, and are thin even though their extra walking shouldn't matter that much.
      - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
        >What's the cause of that? Gluttony is something as old as Christianity...
        astrange 2y ago
        That's the problem. You can't explain something that recently changed using something that's always true.
        BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
        Of course you can, because while gluttony has always existed, both absurd abundance and tolerance taken to its extreme haven't. You can guess the interactions between all of these, I wager.
chmod775 2y ago
Either the impulse to load up on candy is so strong that one needs a $1,000 / month weight loss drug, or we are just that weak-willed. It doesn't matter: We, as a species, are comically embarrassing sometimes. The point wasn't to be judgemental, it was commentary. I'm not free of vices either.

xenospn 2y ago

If you’re in the US, normal is actually overweight and constantly eating.

BoingBoomTschak 2y ago

> We need to think about obesity as more than just a lack of self control Do we? I've seen no stats and received no reasons to believe that the majority of obese people have such a distorted appetite that lack of willpower can't be inferred from their state. Also, exercise exists, even for large eaters. But as always, I don't expect HN (like most places full of Overton prisoners) to react well to the now heretical notion that responsibility is more than a social construct and that the new religion of hedonism is wrong and destructive.

astrange 2y ago
Exercise isn't an effective method of weight loss. Naturally having a labor intensive job can be, but it's basically a waste of time to try and exercise something off when it would've been better to not eat it. Anyway, "lack of willpower" isn't a cause nor does it fit the evidence very well. For instance, obesity in the US is geographical, correlated with lower altitudes[0], and it happens to animals as well as humans[1]. (Hint: it's caused by pollutants.) [0] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0093493 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [1] https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspb.2010.1890 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspb.2010...
- BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
  Chinese large cities are way more polluted than in the US yet they aren't particularly known for their obesity issues. As usual, correlation isn't causation and my best bet is that there are more cities at lower altitude, which means more sedentary and/or "Western" urban way of life (including eating bad food in too large quantities and office jobs). Anyway, I don't think that anyone rational and arguing in good faith can say that low willpower isn't the predominant ingredient in the 1st world's obesity crisis. Especially anyone coming from said 1st world and having interacted with some of the "victims".
  - astrange 2y ago
    I actually linked a quasi-experimental paper that does show causation. > "Western" urban way of life (including eating bad food in too large quantities and office jobs). The issue is "too large quantities". What's the cause of that? It's been available for much longer than Americans have been obese. Asians work longer hours, probably drink more, and are thin even though their extra walking shouldn't matter that much.
    - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
      >What's the cause of that? Gluttony is something as old as Christianity...
      - astrange 2y ago
        That's the problem. You can't explain something that recently changed using something that's always true.
        BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
        Of course you can, because while gluttony has always existed, both absurd abundance and tolerance taken to its extreme haven't. You can guess the interactions between all of these, I wager.

chmod775 2y ago

Either the impulse to load up on candy is so strong that one needs a $1,000 / month weight loss drug, or we are just that weak-willed. It doesn't matter: We, as a species, are comically embarrassing sometimes. The point wasn't to be judgemental, it was commentary. I'm not free of vices either.