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I’m simply too old and seen too many BSOD to ever allow this to be done on me. Also I just watched the Fallout episode with the Mr. Handy in it. The picture i

I’m simply too old and seen too many BSOD to ever allow this to be done on me. Also I just watched the Fallout episode with the Mr. Handy in it. The picture in the article of the robot hand moving a drill into his mouth fills me with intense dread. Maybe the younger generation would feel differently. I didn’t let my Tesla drive either.

deleted 2y ago
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whynotmaybe 2y ago
But you're letting your device auto update even though you might come from a period where you had to voluntarily and manually install a service pack or start manually your internet session by dialing up your provider... Like I did. I even remember manually mowing my parent's lawn when I was a teenager while there are now many mowing robots that wander around with several spinning blades. And what about having 2 tons Waymo's car wandering around without a driver? Are we getting too old for this shit?
bluGill 2y ago
> I didn’t let my Tesla drive either. I know how bad humans are at driving. I don't have a Tesla, so I don't know if I'd let one drive, but they only need to be better than humans not perfect. I just wish there was some unbiased source of data as to how good they are - the only numbers I can find come from those who have reason to lie (mostly Tesla, but other self driving car companies as well). There are rules around how medical software is developed and so if this is property approved by the FDA or equivalent I'm not worried - it may not be perfect, but human dentists are not either.
- infamouscow 2y ago
  You must not have any experience working with medical software. This is lawyers checking boxes, nothing more. The people that actually wrote the software likely are outside the jurisdiction of the FDA and have zero incentive to treat the software any different than any other hastily organized project. After all, why would any of these people care beyond their paycheck -- it's extremely foolish to assume others hold the same priorities and values as you do.
- galangalalgol 2y ago
  My experience with the recent tesla supervised-but-still-full self drive beta was largely positive. I have a cameras only Y with hw4. I think John Carmack will win his bet. I do think they need regional model modifications though. The way you drive in different places is different. In some places you can't signal that you want to change lanes or people close ranks. In others people make room. It did two stops at each stop sign in places that had no crosswalks, picking some arbitrary distance before the intersection to watch for pedestrians, then it pulled up to look for road traffic. Perhaps not a horrible idea, but humans around here don't do that so it confuses other drivers and pedestrians both.
HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
It only has to screw up and inflict harm at a lower rate than a human. Human dentists injure patients every day.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  I don't think "lower" is enough. Human psychology requires "much much lower". It's not rational, but that's us.
wrs 2y ago
At least this is actual CNC software using math and geometry that somebody can find the bugs in. What terrifies me is “software” that is really just black boxes filled with floating point numbers and no one knows how it works, or when it won’t.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  IDK. Logically you are right, but humans are emotional. Just a day or so ago, here on HN, full of IT guys, there was a discussion about some Tesla autopilot crash. People were absolutely livid and demanded the impossible. Now - generic Musk hate might have something to do with it, but I suspect that it is not just Musk. We really react very unfavorably to machines wreaking havoc, while our tolerance for humans fessing up is somewhat higher.
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    > We really react very unfavorably to machines wreaking havoc, while our tolerance for humans fessing up is somewhat higher. Yup. Over 100 people die in car crashes in the USA every day. When a fatal car crash happens, it MIGHT make it to the local news. But a single car crashes while driving autonomously and it's national news for MONTHS. Now, I'll acknowledge that there will be statistical bias here. There percentage of cars driving autonomously at any given moment is likely less than 1%. But autonomous cars make different kinds of mistakes. They'll fail to identify the lines in the road correctly, or fail to recognize an obstacle. Meanwhile, humans will drive drunk, drive distracted, or have massive egos and drive dangerously because they think they own the road and everyone else is just in their way, or just simply be bad drivers that don't even look around themselves before changing lanes.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Because we feel better when those humans can go to jail as a form of Justice since now that person gets to suffer in exchange for the suffering caused. Meanwhile we don't feel anything if the robot that killed someone gets decommissioned because machines Don't suffer.

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whynotmaybe 2y ago

But you're letting your device auto update even though you might come from a period where you had to voluntarily and manually install a service pack or start manually your internet session by dialing up your provider... Like I did. I even remember manually mowing my parent's lawn when I was a teenager while there are now many mowing robots that wander around with several spinning blades. And what about having 2 tons Waymo's car wandering around without a driver? Are we getting too old for this shit?

bluGill 2y ago

> I didn’t let my Tesla drive either. I know how bad humans are at driving. I don't have a Tesla, so I don't know if I'd let one drive, but they only need to be better than humans not perfect. I just wish there was some unbiased source of data as to how good they are - the only numbers I can find come from those who have reason to lie (mostly Tesla, but other self driving car companies as well). There are rules around how medical software is developed and so if this is property approved by the FDA or equivalent I'm not worried - it may not be perfect, but human dentists are not either.

infamouscow 2y ago
You must not have any experience working with medical software. This is lawyers checking boxes, nothing more. The people that actually wrote the software likely are outside the jurisdiction of the FDA and have zero incentive to treat the software any different than any other hastily organized project. After all, why would any of these people care beyond their paycheck -- it's extremely foolish to assume others hold the same priorities and values as you do.
galangalalgol 2y ago
My experience with the recent tesla supervised-but-still-full self drive beta was largely positive. I have a cameras only Y with hw4. I think John Carmack will win his bet. I do think they need regional model modifications though. The way you drive in different places is different. In some places you can't signal that you want to change lanes or people close ranks. In others people make room. It did two stops at each stop sign in places that had no crosswalks, picking some arbitrary distance before the intersection to watch for pedestrians, then it pulled up to look for road traffic. Perhaps not a horrible idea, but humans around here don't do that so it confuses other drivers and pedestrians both.

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago

It only has to screw up and inflict harm at a lower rate than a human. Human dentists injure patients every day.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
I don't think "lower" is enough. Human psychology requires "much much lower". It's not rational, but that's us.

wrs 2y ago

At least this is actual CNC software using math and geometry that somebody can find the bugs in. What terrifies me is “software” that is really just black boxes filled with floating point numbers and no one knows how it works, or when it won’t.

inglor_cz 2y ago
IDK. Logically you are right, but humans are emotional. Just a day or so ago, here on HN, full of IT guys, there was a discussion about some Tesla autopilot crash. People were absolutely livid and demanded the impossible. Now - generic Musk hate might have something to do with it, but I suspect that it is not just Musk. We really react very unfavorably to machines wreaking havoc, while our tolerance for humans fessing up is somewhat higher.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  > We really react very unfavorably to machines wreaking havoc, while our tolerance for humans fessing up is somewhat higher. Yup. Over 100 people die in car crashes in the USA every day. When a fatal car crash happens, it MIGHT make it to the local news. But a single car crashes while driving autonomously and it's national news for MONTHS. Now, I'll acknowledge that there will be statistical bias here. There percentage of cars driving autonomously at any given moment is likely less than 1%. But autonomous cars make different kinds of mistakes. They'll fail to identify the lines in the road correctly, or fail to recognize an obstacle. Meanwhile, humans will drive drunk, drive distracted, or have massive egos and drive dangerously because they think they own the road and everyone else is just in their way, or just simply be bad drivers that don't even look around themselves before changing lanes.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Because we feel better when those humans can go to jail as a form of Justice since now that person gets to suffer in exchange for the suffering caused. Meanwhile we don't feel anything if the robot that killed someone gets decommissioned because machines Don't suffer.