3 ms·

We are going to end up spraying the atmosphere no matter what. No need to really debate it, it's going to happen. The smoldering rug is starting to flame. The

We are going to end up spraying the atmosphere no matter what. No need to really debate it, it's going to happen. The smoldering rug is starting to flame. The fine antique chair has fire running up its legs. The renaissance painting is starting to bubble. Everyone in the room knows the fire needs to be put out now, but instead wants to debate how it should be done since everything is so valuable. Blow on it hard? Smack it with some kitchen towels? Stomp on it with out feet? Someone however is saying we need to break the stained glass window, run the garden hose through, and blast everything with water. Again, people want to debate this, but it doesn't matter, because it's only viable thing that will work and will work before the whole house burns down. So they will be forced into it. Water damage and all.

silverquiet 2y ago
Spot on. I think of it like a medical intervention. You can complain all you want that an opiate addict should get clean, but if you don't give them Narcan to stop an overdose, they're not going to get the chance to do so.
slowmovintarget 2y ago
Your analogies are just analogies. Straight appeal to emotions. We have numbers for how many trees we need to plant. "We" could collectively do that and it would outright fix the carbon problem. It's a metric f-ton of trees, a huge number, but it is actually within human capability and has known and studied effects. It's just hard. Let's go manually adjust the entire atmosphere by blocking the sun? That's wildly speculative and dangerous. Worse, that preserves all the bad behavior that got us into the mess in the first place, and would likely have massive consequences we don't properly understand.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  Remember when we had a pandemic and people just had to wear masks and stay inside. That was easy. And society fell flat on it's face. I just hope the people who want to do the "hard" thing stay out of the way. Once temperatures stop rising we can work on planting a California sized forest every year for two decades in all that vacant empty fertile yet unforested and unpopulated land.
  - kwhitefoot 2y ago
    Perhaps your society did. The one I live in didn't. So I think it says more about your society than it says about wearing masks.
    - Workaccount2 2y ago
      I hate to break it to you, but your society is on the same train as mine, barreling towards the same cliff of climate collapse. And unlike your society, mine has a dramatically larger hand on the throttle. Edit: I see you are from Norway, which ironically is the wealthy high society it is because it sold the fuel that powers this train. It's great your country with a population the size of a single metropolitan area can all wear masks. Good Job. Too bad you all couldn't agree to keep the oil in the ground too. Pot calling the kettle black, eh?
      - kwhitefoot 2y ago
        What does all that have to do with the comment I was replying to?
  - slowmovintarget 2y ago
    Wearing masks became a political thing, at least in the US, because the government deliberately lied to us about their efficacy. They were trying to reserve masks for health-care personnel, or more generally, trying to "shape" public behavior through lies, and worse, disinformation and disavowal campaigns against those experts that contradicted the message intended to control. The "get out of my way, I'm trying to control people here" message feels like a really bad way to go about this. We've had enough of that. My credence for your claim that this is the only way is low, and I think most critical thinkers would likely come to the same conclusion. Having read the article, dumping sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere causes acid rain, which has its own significant problems (not the least of which are direct human health consequences). And Dr. Keith is proposing the same "get out of my way" attitude that has earned us a myriad of troubles: > “A lesson I’ve learned from this is that if we do this again, we won’t be open in the same way,” Dr. Keith said. In other words, instead of listening to the objections against solar geoengineering the only thing he learned from the objections was to hide what he's attempting. That's hubris. It isn't just that he's ignoring Indigenous People's groups or Greta Thunberg, he's ignoring his colleagues in the field who are saying this is dangerous. So no, I don't trust people who lay claim to an existential threat as license to do as they please, especially when we know there are safer alternatives.

silverquiet 2y ago

Spot on. I think of it like a medical intervention. You can complain all you want that an opiate addict should get clean, but if you don't give them Narcan to stop an overdose, they're not going to get the chance to do so.

slowmovintarget 2y ago

Your analogies are just analogies. Straight appeal to emotions. We have numbers for how many trees we need to plant. "We" could collectively do that and it would outright fix the carbon problem. It's a metric f-ton of trees, a huge number, but it is actually within human capability and has known and studied effects. It's just hard. Let's go manually adjust the entire atmosphere by blocking the sun? That's wildly speculative and dangerous. Worse, that preserves all the bad behavior that got us into the mess in the first place, and would likely have massive consequences we don't properly understand.

Workaccount2 2y ago
Remember when we had a pandemic and people just had to wear masks and stay inside. That was easy. And society fell flat on it's face. I just hope the people who want to do the "hard" thing stay out of the way. Once temperatures stop rising we can work on planting a California sized forest every year for two decades in all that vacant empty fertile yet unforested and unpopulated land.
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  Perhaps your society did. The one I live in didn't. So I think it says more about your society than it says about wearing masks.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    I hate to break it to you, but your society is on the same train as mine, barreling towards the same cliff of climate collapse. And unlike your society, mine has a dramatically larger hand on the throttle. Edit: I see you are from Norway, which ironically is the wealthy high society it is because it sold the fuel that powers this train. It's great your country with a population the size of a single metropolitan area can all wear masks. Good Job. Too bad you all couldn't agree to keep the oil in the ground too. Pot calling the kettle black, eh?
    - kwhitefoot 2y ago
      What does all that have to do with the comment I was replying to?
- slowmovintarget 2y ago
  Wearing masks became a political thing, at least in the US, because the government deliberately lied to us about their efficacy. They were trying to reserve masks for health-care personnel, or more generally, trying to "shape" public behavior through lies, and worse, disinformation and disavowal campaigns against those experts that contradicted the message intended to control. The "get out of my way, I'm trying to control people here" message feels like a really bad way to go about this. We've had enough of that. My credence for your claim that this is the only way is low, and I think most critical thinkers would likely come to the same conclusion. Having read the article, dumping sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere causes acid rain, which has its own significant problems (not the least of which are direct human health consequences). And Dr. Keith is proposing the same "get out of my way" attitude that has earned us a myriad of troubles: > “A lesson I’ve learned from this is that if we do this again, we won’t be open in the same way,” Dr. Keith said. In other words, instead of listening to the objections against solar geoengineering the only thing he learned from the objections was to hide what he's attempting. That's hubris. It isn't just that he's ignoring Indigenous People's groups or Greta Thunberg, he's ignoring his colleagues in the field who are saying this is dangerous. So no, I don't trust people who lay claim to an existential threat as license to do as they please, especially when we know there are safer alternatives.