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Middlemen are people who spent time specialising in a market and you pay them as guides. You never have to go through them, but you'll get your ass raped. Ther

by xwolfi 2y ago

Middlemen are people who spent time specialising in a market and you pay them as guides. You never have to go through them, but you'll get your ass raped. There s nothing wrong about them, they work hard and are not rent seekers (a commission on successful deal is the exact opposite of a rent). Every countries has them (Im French, live in Hong Kong) and what you bemoaned is mundane in my experience.

alvah 2y ago
"a commission on successful deal is the exact opposite of a rent"? When the real estate lobby makes the whole industry a de facto closed shop, the real estate agencies themselves are full of middlemen picking each other's pockets, and the commission rate and total amount are far in excess of what you'd expect in a free market, and completely unrelated to any effort or expense on behalf of the agent? Sure, it's the exact opposite of rent seeking /sarc
BobbyJo 2y ago
Car salesmen are guides and we'd get raped without them? Wild take.
- DebtDeflation 2y ago
  Salesmen in general tend to know very little about the products they sell but car salesmen are on entirely different plane - I think they get selected for knowing absolutely nothing about cars and get extra consideration for knowing things that are blatantly false.
- eru 2y ago
  Other countries seem to do just fine without legally requiring them.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  I agree with your objection to "ass raped" - but you have to agree that buying a car without any dealers would logistically be far more difficult, right?
  - BobbyJo 2y ago
    Not at all. An order form and direct delivery would be way easier.
    - listenallyall 2y ago
      What if you wanted, or needed, a car today, rather than wait 3-6 months? How would the car get from the factory to your home? Who would arrange financing? If there was a recall of your particular model, who would make the fix for free? Who would you send an "order form" to if buying a used car? You personally may prefer to handle each of the above on your own, but millions of people prefer one-stop shopping where everything is taken care of, along with services like title registration, having a person show you how to use the electronics, offering coverage for regular maintenance, etc.
      - BobbyJo 2y ago
        > What if you wanted, or needed, a car today, rather than wait 3-6 months? Why would direct delivery take 3-6 months? Also, most dealerships wont give you your car the day you buy it anyway. As far as financing goes, thats totally orthogonal to the process of buying the car. As it stands now, car dealers get kick back from financers and try to steer customers into the highest interest loans they can, so decoupling the two processes would probably benefit customers. Recalls aren't handled by salesmen. Used care sure. Dealers make sense. Secondhand markets need price discovery too afterall.
        listenallyall 2y ago
        3-6 months is how long it takes when you custom-order a car, pretty ridiculous that you don't understand this simple fact. It's actually more complicated, factories have specific allocations of builds they distribute to their dealer network. Direct ordering would open the allocation system, especially of popular cars, to be monopolized by independent people or groups, similar to concert ticket scalpers. Every consumer bank offers auto loan financing and yet somehow, tons of people prefer to go with the dealer. You still didn't state how the car would get from the factory to your house - would you have to hire a delivery company? Or you think GM is going to put up with "your car delivery is approaching your house" and you reply with "I'm at work can you come back at 6?" Recalls are handled by dealerships, which is where salesman work. Like most of HN, you are choosing to ignore the real-world reasons these companies exist and assume some techno-utopia would solve all problems. Indeed, a small percentage of car buyers would benefit from a pure direct-from-factory purchase option, but the vast majority of car buyers want or need one or more of the services that car dealerships provide.

by xwolfi 2y ago

alvah 2y ago

"a commission on successful deal is the exact opposite of a rent"? When the real estate lobby makes the whole industry a de facto closed shop, the real estate agencies themselves are full of middlemen picking each other's pockets, and the commission rate and total amount are far in excess of what you'd expect in a free market, and completely unrelated to any effort or expense on behalf of the agent? Sure, it's the exact opposite of rent seeking /sarc

BobbyJo 2y ago

Car salesmen are guides and we'd get raped without them? Wild take.

DebtDeflation 2y ago
Salesmen in general tend to know very little about the products they sell but car salesmen are on entirely different plane - I think they get selected for knowing absolutely nothing about cars and get extra consideration for knowing things that are blatantly false.
eru 2y ago
Other countries seem to do just fine without legally requiring them.
listenallyall 2y ago
I agree with your objection to "ass raped" - but you have to agree that buying a car without any dealers would logistically be far more difficult, right?
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  Not at all. An order form and direct delivery would be way easier.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    What if you wanted, or needed, a car today, rather than wait 3-6 months? How would the car get from the factory to your home? Who would arrange financing? If there was a recall of your particular model, who would make the fix for free? Who would you send an "order form" to if buying a used car? You personally may prefer to handle each of the above on your own, but millions of people prefer one-stop shopping where everything is taken care of, along with services like title registration, having a person show you how to use the electronics, offering coverage for regular maintenance, etc.
    - BobbyJo 2y ago
      > What if you wanted, or needed, a car today, rather than wait 3-6 months? Why would direct delivery take 3-6 months? Also, most dealerships wont give you your car the day you buy it anyway. As far as financing goes, thats totally orthogonal to the process of buying the car. As it stands now, car dealers get kick back from financers and try to steer customers into the highest interest loans they can, so decoupling the two processes would probably benefit customers. Recalls aren't handled by salesmen. Used care sure. Dealers make sense. Secondhand markets need price discovery too afterall.
      - listenallyall 2y ago
        3-6 months is how long it takes when you custom-order a car, pretty ridiculous that you don't understand this simple fact. It's actually more complicated, factories have specific allocations of builds they distribute to their dealer network. Direct ordering would open the allocation system, especially of popular cars, to be monopolized by independent people or groups, similar to concert ticket scalpers. Every consumer bank offers auto loan financing and yet somehow, tons of people prefer to go with the dealer. You still didn't state how the car would get from the factory to your house - would you have to hire a delivery company? Or you think GM is going to put up with "your car delivery is approaching your house" and you reply with "I'm at work can you come back at 6?" Recalls are handled by dealerships, which is where salesman work. Like most of HN, you are choosing to ignore the real-world reasons these companies exist and assume some techno-utopia would solve all problems. Indeed, a small percentage of car buyers would benefit from a pure direct-from-factory purchase option, but the vast majority of car buyers want or need one or more of the services that car dealerships provide.