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Pilots bid for jobs based on seniority and are laid off in reverse order of seniority. Same with police officers. Every union job there is has a concept of seni

by pc86 2y ago

Pilots bid for jobs based on seniority and are laid off in reverse order of seniority. Same with police officers. Every union job there is has a concept of seniority number and there's no way to get around that unless you go into management in which case you're no longer in the union (such as smaller police departments where the lieutenant and/or chief are not under union purview).

dghlsakjg 2y ago
The screen actors guild hires based on seniority? That’s why Clint Eastwood keeps playing 17 year olds… There are plenty of unions that aren’t seniority based.
- pc86 2y ago
  I'll listen to arguments for a developers' union that includes no seniority-based provisions but one of the biggest reasons people cite is "ageism."
- creer 2y ago
  They also don't hire anyone. They are not the ones who do the hiring. Airlines it seems - for a current example - have relinquished some hiring / firing authority to union rules.
creer 2y ago
Seems to me (most) unions and old-style corporations reward seniority because they are captured. (Roughly speaking) the old-timers stick together because they can and because there are old-timers. And few people get promoted because there is only a very narrow path upward (say, 6-10 lower to a ground-floor supervisor, 6 of these to a higher rank). That necessarily creates a very thin path up. And there is space up only when the previous person is promoted or leaves. There is respect for the skill of a senior employee when it has been proven but respect will only buy you so much. Mostly that skill is put to good effect without massive salary change. There is nominal seniority-based salary increase because that's affordable and easy to manage - and is captured. That is, this salary scale was designed by the previous seniors. Same for promotion order and layoff order. Seniority then becomes a way to "force" loyalty: If you jump, you may not be one of the top dogs who think they have captured the system. No need for (much) higher salaries if the staff themselves support seniority.

by pc86 2y ago

dghlsakjg 2y ago

The screen actors guild hires based on seniority? That’s why Clint Eastwood keeps playing 17 year olds… There are plenty of unions that aren’t seniority based.

pc86 2y ago
I'll listen to arguments for a developers' union that includes no seniority-based provisions but one of the biggest reasons people cite is "ageism."
creer 2y ago
They also don't hire anyone. They are not the ones who do the hiring. Airlines it seems - for a current example - have relinquished some hiring / firing authority to union rules.

creer 2y ago

Seems to me (most) unions and old-style corporations reward seniority because they are captured. (Roughly speaking) the old-timers stick together because they can and because there are old-timers. And few people get promoted because there is only a very narrow path upward (say, 6-10 lower to a ground-floor supervisor, 6 of these to a higher rank). That necessarily creates a very thin path up. And there is space up only when the previous person is promoted or leaves. There is respect for the skill of a senior employee when it has been proven but respect will only buy you so much. Mostly that skill is put to good effect without massive salary change. There is nominal seniority-based salary increase because that's affordable and easy to manage - and is captured. That is, this salary scale was designed by the previous seniors. Same for promotion order and layoff order. Seniority then becomes a way to "force" loyalty: If you jump, you may not be one of the top dogs who think they have captured the system. No need for (much) higher salaries if the staff themselves support seniority.