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I think the general lack of willingness to help in Big Tech is very problematic. You can almost never get through those thick-skulled reps that email you out of

I think the general lack of willingness to help in Big Tech is very problematic. You can almost never get through those thick-skulled reps that email you out of the blue...

kmeisthax 2y ago
The problem is that by having a thick-skulled rep walk in and send a few e-mails, Yelp has already lost more money on API customer acquisition than the app developer was willing to pay. That's why these APIs had free tiers: they covered these kinds of micro-usages that would be far too cheap for a sales rep to cover. The reason why those free tiers went away is that AI came along. Not so much that the AI scrapers were abusing Yelp free tier[0], but that they could. And once companies realized how much money was floating around in selling data access, non-abusive free tier users went from "a cool goodwill gesture" to "freeloading parasites". David Kopec and Restauraunts got steamrolled in a case of technological gentrification. If you're selling data access for $TOO_CHEAP_TO_METER/call to a random indie, Apple, Google, and/or Microsoft will use that as a comparable for why Yelp should charge peanuts. Or they'll just acquihire him. They need him and his app to go away because he is inconvenient to the long-term valuation plan of Yelp, an old guard Web 2.0 business that never quite became sovereign. [0] Though, to be clear, AI scrapers are absolutely abusive in general.
Aurornis 2y ago
> You can almost never get through those thick-skulled reps that email you out of the blue... He did get through to the sales rep. The responses are directly in the article. The sales rep responded within hours and showed him how to sign up for the free trial option to extend the free usage period longer while he decided. What more would you want the rep to do?
- WoodenChair 2y ago
  > He did get through to the sales rep. The responses are directly in the article. The sales rep responded within hours and showed him how to sign up for the free trial option to extend the free usage period longer while he decided. > What more would you want the rep to do? Not send a threatening, inaccurate email with a 4-day (1 business day Friday->Monday) deadline in the first place? Also for the record, this was not a sales manager. This was someone in "growth" that sent the email. I guess maybe that just means "sales."
  - ForHackernews 2y ago
    The email wasn't inaccurate: They really were going to shut down his API key and then they did.
    - account42 2y ago
      > Your API usage is higher than lots of other Yelp Fusion developers You're right it wasn't just inaccurate it was outright deceptive, trying to frame this as something specific to OP that he is responsible for rather than a change in their business applying to all API users.
- xvector 2y ago
  > What more would you want the rep to do? Employ a shred of critical thinking and realize this app probably drives more value to Yelp than the cost to run the API, and flag it for an exception.
  - tra3 2y ago
    Customer service or sales people like that are usually at the lowest point on the totem pole. It’s likely that they have zero leeway, either you’re gonna pay exorbitantly or you’re out. It’s an institutional problem.
    - account42 2y ago
      In that case it's not customer service but a customer firewall. If the CS employees are not empowered to induce solutions even if they benefit both the customers and the company then they are literally useless. And yes, many companies have "customer service" like that designed to waste your time until you go away. That doesn't mean it's the only possible way.
      - tra3 2y ago
        Completely agree with you. This is a strategy, like quiet firing, to make people go away. Rather than being up front, this is an underhanded way of making folks leave.
Fomite 2y ago
One of the things I most admire and also loathe about Big Tech is how much they normalized nonexistent customer service.
- StressedDev 2y ago
  Amazon’s AWS has good customer service. I get good customer service at the Apple Store, and I also got good customer service when Microsoft had retail stores. I have used Azure’s customer service and it was OK. Amazon’s AWS is know for outstanding customer service. My main point is some big tech companies have terrible service. Some don’t.
  - compootr 2y ago
    github support is nil in my experiences
    - LilBytes 2y ago
      Par for the course for any product or service owned by Microsoft.
    - dr-smooth 2y ago
      on the other hand, gitlab support has impressed me a few times with the speed of the response and the knowledge level of the support techs.
  - m463 2y ago
    Maybe if you can initiate a chargeback, you get customer service.
    - StressedDev 2y ago
      I have never had to initiate a chargeback to get customer service.
      - m463 2y ago
choppaface 2y ago
But Yelp is not big tech, certainly not by market cap. It could be old tech, in the way that a 2010-era data API may have been a growth hack intended to create an app ecosystem. But 10 years later, there’s no app ecosystem and the company can’t afford to support a (stagnant) lone indie developer. Especially in the current era of LLM scrapers.
volleygman180 2y ago
And I'd put Apple App Store Review team (specifically, the appeals/rejection team) at the top of this list

I think the general lack of willingness to help in Big Tech is very problematic. You can almost never get through those thick-skulled reps that email you out of the blue...

kmeisthax 2y ago

The problem is that by having a thick-skulled rep walk in and send a few e-mails, Yelp has already lost more money on API customer acquisition than the app developer was willing to pay. That's why these APIs had free tiers: they covered these kinds of micro-usages that would be far too cheap for a sales rep to cover. The reason why those free tiers went away is that AI came along. Not so much that the AI scrapers were abusing Yelp free tier[0], but that they could. And once companies realized how much money was floating around in selling data access, non-abusive free tier users went from "a cool goodwill gesture" to "freeloading parasites". David Kopec and Restauraunts got steamrolled in a case of technological gentrification. If you're selling data access for $TOO_CHEAP_TO_METER/call to a random indie, Apple, Google, and/or Microsoft will use that as a comparable for why Yelp should charge peanuts. Or they'll just acquihire him. They need him and his app to go away because he is inconvenient to the long-term valuation plan of Yelp, an old guard Web 2.0 business that never quite became sovereign. [0] Though, to be clear, AI scrapers are absolutely abusive in general.

Aurornis 2y ago

> You can almost never get through those thick-skulled reps that email you out of the blue... He did get through to the sales rep. The responses are directly in the article. The sales rep responded within hours and showed him how to sign up for the free trial option to extend the free usage period longer while he decided. What more would you want the rep to do?

WoodenChair 2y ago
> He did get through to the sales rep. The responses are directly in the article. The sales rep responded within hours and showed him how to sign up for the free trial option to extend the free usage period longer while he decided. > What more would you want the rep to do? Not send a threatening, inaccurate email with a 4-day (1 business day Friday->Monday) deadline in the first place? Also for the record, this was not a sales manager. This was someone in "growth" that sent the email. I guess maybe that just means "sales."
- ForHackernews 2y ago
  The email wasn't inaccurate: They really were going to shut down his API key and then they did.
  - account42 2y ago
    > Your API usage is higher than lots of other Yelp Fusion developers You're right it wasn't just inaccurate it was outright deceptive, trying to frame this as something specific to OP that he is responsible for rather than a change in their business applying to all API users.
xvector 2y ago
> What more would you want the rep to do? Employ a shred of critical thinking and realize this app probably drives more value to Yelp than the cost to run the API, and flag it for an exception.
- tra3 2y ago
  Customer service or sales people like that are usually at the lowest point on the totem pole. It’s likely that they have zero leeway, either you’re gonna pay exorbitantly or you’re out. It’s an institutional problem.
  - account42 2y ago
    In that case it's not customer service but a customer firewall. If the CS employees are not empowered to induce solutions even if they benefit both the customers and the company then they are literally useless. And yes, many companies have "customer service" like that designed to waste your time until you go away. That doesn't mean it's the only possible way.
    - tra3 2y ago
      Completely agree with you. This is a strategy, like quiet firing, to make people go away. Rather than being up front, this is an underhanded way of making folks leave.

Fomite 2y ago

One of the things I most admire and also loathe about Big Tech is how much they normalized nonexistent customer service.

StressedDev 2y ago
Amazon’s AWS has good customer service. I get good customer service at the Apple Store, and I also got good customer service when Microsoft had retail stores. I have used Azure’s customer service and it was OK. Amazon’s AWS is know for outstanding customer service. My main point is some big tech companies have terrible service. Some don’t.
- compootr 2y ago
  github support is nil in my experiences
  - LilBytes 2y ago
    Par for the course for any product or service owned by Microsoft.
  - dr-smooth 2y ago
    on the other hand, gitlab support has impressed me a few times with the speed of the response and the knowledge level of the support techs.
- m463 2y ago
  Maybe if you can initiate a chargeback, you get customer service.
  - StressedDev 2y ago
    I have never had to initiate a chargeback to get customer service.
    - m463 2y ago

choppaface 2y ago

But Yelp is not big tech, certainly not by market cap. It could be old tech, in the way that a 2010-era data API may have been a growth hack intended to create an app ecosystem. But 10 years later, there’s no app ecosystem and the company can’t afford to support a (stagnant) lone indie developer. Especially in the current era of LLM scrapers.

volleygman180 2y ago

And I'd put Apple App Store Review team (specifically, the appeals/rejection team) at the top of this list