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> when asked how many of his development team are working on the compiler for programming language Jai, Blow replied: "None, because we can't afford to pay anyo

> when asked how many of his development team are working on the compiler for programming language Jai, Blow replied: "None, because we can't afford to pay anyone because the sales are bad." Context: jblow is a well known dev figure working on Jai, a programming language. He hasn't quite reached the fame level of carmack, but has a sizeable following

dralley 2y ago
Probably should have focused on making games rather than creating an entirely new, proprietary language ecosystem.
- russtrotter 2y ago
  That's certainly the pragmatic call, but while admittedly I'd never heard of Braid or his other games before he started showing up my YT feed, his takes on programming culture are very opinionated and compelling. He could have focused on making games and lobbing criticisms like so many of us do, but he chose to act. I'd say that's worth something.
  - djur 2y ago
    I'm not sure where the weight behind his opinions comes from, though. Braid and The Witness are both well-respected games, but they're respected from a game design perspective, not as technical accomplishments. If you told me that both games were implemented using Unity or Unreal I would have no trouble believing that. And although it's certainly quite an accomplishment for a single developer to complete even one successful game, it's not like he's remarkably prolific, either. If anything, it seems like Blow's technical purism has been an obstacle to his creative ambitions. I'm sure he'd argue that the two are inseparable, that the mindset that enabled him to create Braid is also the mindset that led him to work on Jai, and that might be true. But I'm not sure why anyone else should desire to follow in his footsteps -- I think most people would end up mired in the desire for purity without the achievement to balance it out. I might contrast him with Edmund McMillen, who managed to use Flash to develop two hugely successful, influential, and creatively distinctive games in the span of a couple of years. His approach is just as worthy of respect as Blow's, I'd argue.
    - tEMporality7 2y ago
      > I think most people would end up mired in the desire for purity without the achievement to balance it out. I feel too many game devs get lost in that instead of just focusing on making a good game. Just make the damn game - there are so many good engines and languages out there, why do you want purity when you don't have the freedom to pursue it?
      - djur 2y ago
        I think a lot of programmers love the idea of being game developers but don't really have much of an idea for what to make, so they get diverted into developing a game engine or even tools to support a game engine instead. People can spend years on that. And that's a perfectly fine hobby. But it doesn't usually result in actually making a game. My advice to people going down that path is: consider contributing to ScummVM, an open source roguelike, or a ROM hacking project for a game you already like. Scratch your technical itch on something that other people will actually play. It feels great, and it gives you a better path toward eventually building something that's totally your own. Trying to build your own game engine and game on top of it is like taking a plane to Nepal and just starting to walk up Everest with the intention of figuring it out as you go.
markus_zhang 2y ago
Has anyone used Jai? What do you think? I used to watch a bit of his programming videos, but I'm definitely not a PL professional. I just think it's super cool to create one's own PL and dogfood it. I wish I could do that for PL and OS (am reading Showstoppers!).
- davikr 2y ago
  I hear praise all the time from people in the private Beta, specially about its metaprogramming capabilities and how fast compilation can be.. Shame I haven't been able to test it yet.
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    Thanks! Sounds interesting. I'm glad he managed to do whatever he wanted to do.
harles 2y ago
An indie studio building not only its own engine but its own language to make its own engine seems like a huge mistake.
- badsectoracula 2y ago
  Considering the money he made from Braid alone (let alone The Witness, which back then he claimed that it was about to surpass Braid's sales) - $4m mentioned at some point - i'd say the mistake would be his expenses. $4m alone (again, let alone his other games) would be enough to retire and make languges, engines and whatever else he wanted.
  - santoshalper 2y ago
    For yourself, sure. To pay others to do it? Hardly. A two-pizza team in the US costs $1M to $2M a year fully loaded, depending on location.
    - badsectoracula 2y ago
      US is huge, i'm 100% certain that he could move to a cheaper location if that was a concern. And with the Internet there isn't really a reason to limit yourself to people from US, a fraction of that would be enough to contract people from EU (though i'm certain you can also find people from US with much less than $500k/year-$1m/year to work on games).

dralley 2y ago

Probably should have focused on making games rather than creating an entirely new, proprietary language ecosystem.

russtrotter 2y ago
That's certainly the pragmatic call, but while admittedly I'd never heard of Braid or his other games before he started showing up my YT feed, his takes on programming culture are very opinionated and compelling. He could have focused on making games and lobbing criticisms like so many of us do, but he chose to act. I'd say that's worth something.
- djur 2y ago
  I'm not sure where the weight behind his opinions comes from, though. Braid and The Witness are both well-respected games, but they're respected from a game design perspective, not as technical accomplishments. If you told me that both games were implemented using Unity or Unreal I would have no trouble believing that. And although it's certainly quite an accomplishment for a single developer to complete even one successful game, it's not like he's remarkably prolific, either. If anything, it seems like Blow's technical purism has been an obstacle to his creative ambitions. I'm sure he'd argue that the two are inseparable, that the mindset that enabled him to create Braid is also the mindset that led him to work on Jai, and that might be true. But I'm not sure why anyone else should desire to follow in his footsteps -- I think most people would end up mired in the desire for purity without the achievement to balance it out. I might contrast him with Edmund McMillen, who managed to use Flash to develop two hugely successful, influential, and creatively distinctive games in the span of a couple of years. His approach is just as worthy of respect as Blow's, I'd argue.
  - tEMporality7 2y ago
    > I think most people would end up mired in the desire for purity without the achievement to balance it out. I feel too many game devs get lost in that instead of just focusing on making a good game. Just make the damn game - there are so many good engines and languages out there, why do you want purity when you don't have the freedom to pursue it?
    - djur 2y ago
      I think a lot of programmers love the idea of being game developers but don't really have much of an idea for what to make, so they get diverted into developing a game engine or even tools to support a game engine instead. People can spend years on that. And that's a perfectly fine hobby. But it doesn't usually result in actually making a game. My advice to people going down that path is: consider contributing to ScummVM, an open source roguelike, or a ROM hacking project for a game you already like. Scratch your technical itch on something that other people will actually play. It feels great, and it gives you a better path toward eventually building something that's totally your own. Trying to build your own game engine and game on top of it is like taking a plane to Nepal and just starting to walk up Everest with the intention of figuring it out as you go.

markus_zhang 2y ago

Has anyone used Jai? What do you think? I used to watch a bit of his programming videos, but I'm definitely not a PL professional. I just think it's super cool to create one's own PL and dogfood it. I wish I could do that for PL and OS (am reading Showstoppers!).

davikr 2y ago
I hear praise all the time from people in the private Beta, specially about its metaprogramming capabilities and how fast compilation can be.. Shame I haven't been able to test it yet.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  Thanks! Sounds interesting. I'm glad he managed to do whatever he wanted to do.

harles 2y ago

An indie studio building not only its own engine but its own language to make its own engine seems like a huge mistake.

badsectoracula 2y ago
Considering the money he made from Braid alone (let alone The Witness, which back then he claimed that it was about to surpass Braid's sales) - $4m mentioned at some point - i'd say the mistake would be his expenses. $4m alone (again, let alone his other games) would be enough to retire and make languges, engines and whatever else he wanted.
- santoshalper 2y ago
  For yourself, sure. To pay others to do it? Hardly. A two-pizza team in the US costs $1M to $2M a year fully loaded, depending on location.
  - badsectoracula 2y ago
    US is huge, i'm 100% certain that he could move to a cheaper location if that was a concern. And with the Internet there isn't really a reason to limit yourself to people from US, a fraction of that would be enough to contract people from EU (though i'm certain you can also find people from US with much less than $500k/year-$1m/year to work on games).