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> and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally So let me get this straight. You want AI features, but not the ChatGPT 4o function

> and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally So let me get this straight. You want AI features, but not the ChatGPT 4o functionality you can go use for free right now. You intend to upgrade to one of the Pro phones (the only ones guaranteed to get local AI functionality) for subpar AI functionality and less freedom to select an LLM that works for you? I don't get it. Since WWDC I've heard so much contradiction around what people want from Apple AI. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think it's absolute nonsense that someone would trust OpenAI only when Apple is the middleman. I certainly know the majority of smartphone customers couldn't care less.

cube2222 2y ago
I think you missed the part that ChatGPT is completely optional in Apple’s architecture. You have to explicitly allow ChatGPT per-prompt if you want to use it. The primary models are on-device and their “private compute“. Importantly, I have a fair bit of trust towards OpenAI, but I’m not willing to share the details of half my digital life with them. After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context. I would take those whitepapers with a grain of salt if I were you. Apple's documentation has been known for redacting certain... details, per the request of the US government. Plus, it's not like you or I can go audit the tech (or even the code) and confirm it's the same as in the documentation. Then again, I trust OpenAI and Apple both as far as I can throw them. Maybe it is me being overly discriminate about what I consider secure and not.
threeseed 2y ago
> I don't get it That's very obvious from your comment. Apple Intelligence is an on-device LLM backed by a private Apple hosted LLM. So it has access to your private data and is designed to provide capabilities that can leverage it e.g. it will have knowledge of all your personal interactions across multiple apps. It is fundamentally a personal experience. It is completely different from ChatGPT which is a single LLM that is used to provide a public experience. And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps. That's what I'm talking about, really. Why would you buy a new iPhone to get functionality you can receive from the App Store? I can see two reasons. You're either one of the evergreen sycophants that buys into Apple's security theater, or you're an obsessive Apple-maniac that will use any of their products no matter how bad they are. Those are two miniscule audiences, in the market of current and future iPhone owners. You would have to show me market research to convince me that even 5% of iPhone owners fall into either category. So I'll ask again: does anyone really think an inferior local AI with access to your contacts list is going to drive upgrades? Mind you, in the EU Apple isn't even shipping these features because they have to mysteriously and arbitrarily prevent developers from offering competing AI integrations.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    You really aren't getting it. Apple's LLM is not a competitor for ChatGPT, Claude, Mistral etc. It is an on-device model that has access to all of your private data e.g. health, contacts, mail, photos, messages etc. Something that no other LLM will ever get access to. Which means you can ask highly contextualised questions like "show me the photos I took on my last holiday". Again something no other LLM can do. And it may not drive upgrades on its own but people asked for a better Siri and Apple unquestionably delivered on it.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      > Something that no other LLM will ever get access to. Why? There's no technical reason it's impossible. LLMs don't need an internet connection or persistent local storage; Apple could safely run any LLM with personal data in a sandbox denied internet access. Running Llama or Phi on my data is no less secure than Apple's own local models. Even if Apple does thwart antitrust efforts and becomes the new exclusive offline model provider for iPhone... how does that drive sales? People predisposed to avoid Siri aren't going to be enticed by an AI-powered upgrade, unless they wanted Siri to be wrong more often. These people have access to better LLMs for free, on any device they choose. The only thing Apple can leverage against them is handling the data they store on the device they own... something Apple is very obviously afraid to attempt in markets where they're already scrutinized. Again, besides the perennial Apple investors I do not know a single iPhone owner that cares about anything you just said.

cube2222 2y ago

I think you missed the part that ChatGPT is completely optional in Apple’s architecture. You have to explicitly allow ChatGPT per-prompt if you want to use it. The primary models are on-device and their “private compute“. Importantly, I have a fair bit of trust towards OpenAI, but I’m not willing to share the details of half my digital life with them. After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context.

talldayo 2y ago
> After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context. I would take those whitepapers with a grain of salt if I were you. Apple's documentation has been known for redacting certain... details, per the request of the US government. Plus, it's not like you or I can go audit the tech (or even the code) and confirm it's the same as in the documentation. Then again, I trust OpenAI and Apple both as far as I can throw them. Maybe it is me being overly discriminate about what I consider secure and not.

threeseed 2y ago

> I don't get it That's very obvious from your comment. Apple Intelligence is an on-device LLM backed by a private Apple hosted LLM. So it has access to your private data and is designed to provide capabilities that can leverage it e.g. it will have knowledge of all your personal interactions across multiple apps. It is fundamentally a personal experience. It is completely different from ChatGPT which is a single LLM that is used to provide a public experience. And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps.

talldayo 2y ago
> And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps. That's what I'm talking about, really. Why would you buy a new iPhone to get functionality you can receive from the App Store? I can see two reasons. You're either one of the evergreen sycophants that buys into Apple's security theater, or you're an obsessive Apple-maniac that will use any of their products no matter how bad they are. Those are two miniscule audiences, in the market of current and future iPhone owners. You would have to show me market research to convince me that even 5% of iPhone owners fall into either category. So I'll ask again: does anyone really think an inferior local AI with access to your contacts list is going to drive upgrades? Mind you, in the EU Apple isn't even shipping these features because they have to mysteriously and arbitrarily prevent developers from offering competing AI integrations.
- threeseed 2y ago
  You really aren't getting it. Apple's LLM is not a competitor for ChatGPT, Claude, Mistral etc. It is an on-device model that has access to all of your private data e.g. health, contacts, mail, photos, messages etc. Something that no other LLM will ever get access to. Which means you can ask highly contextualised questions like "show me the photos I took on my last holiday". Again something no other LLM can do. And it may not drive upgrades on its own but people asked for a better Siri and Apple unquestionably delivered on it.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > Something that no other LLM will ever get access to. Why? There's no technical reason it's impossible. LLMs don't need an internet connection or persistent local storage; Apple could safely run any LLM with personal data in a sandbox denied internet access. Running Llama or Phi on my data is no less secure than Apple's own local models. Even if Apple does thwart antitrust efforts and becomes the new exclusive offline model provider for iPhone... how does that drive sales? People predisposed to avoid Siri aren't going to be enticed by an AI-powered upgrade, unless they wanted Siri to be wrong more often. These people have access to better LLMs for free, on any device they choose. The only thing Apple can leverage against them is handling the data they store on the device they own... something Apple is very obviously afraid to attempt in markets where they're already scrutinized. Again, besides the perennial Apple investors I do not know a single iPhone owner that cares about anything you just said.