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If I make a factual statement, such as "among high school students who graduated in 2020, Asian students scored an average of 632 on the SAT math section, compa

If I make a factual statement, such as "among high school students who graduated in 2020, Asian students scored an average of 632 on the SAT math section, compared with 547 for white students" [1], is that a "positive stereotype" or a "statistical difference"? And would that labeling hold for the factual statement "Whites (184 per 100,000 white U.S. residents) and Hispanics (176 per 100,000 Hispanic U.S. residents) were jailed at similar rates. Asians were incarcerated in jails at a rate of 25 inmates per 100,000 Asian U.S. residents." [2] Or would that become a "negative stereotype" about white and hispanics? [1] https://nepc.colorado.edu/blog/standardized-tests-hurt#:~:text=Asian%2DAmerican%20students%20typically%20score,with%20547%20for%20white%20students https://nepc.colorado.edu/blog/standardized-tests-hurt#:~:te.... [2] https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/ji19.pdf https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/ji19.pdf

hansvm 2y ago
> factual statement Those are measurements, prone to their own biases and variances. > make a factual statement People make statements for reasons. "Just stating facts" still, usually, says something other than the fact being stated, and that other thing is usually the actual goal of the message. > stereotypes vs statistical differences It's not quite an either-or scenario. The act of stating something was, by itself, neither a stereotype nor a statistical difference. The measurements being stated were not stereotypes. The reason you stated them might have been because of or in service of a stereotype, and derived statements (like "asians are good at math") might be stereotypes. > negative stereotype This is a bit harder to pin down to a definition. Stereotypes are "negative" when they're untruthful, misleading, unhelpful to the stereotypers, disproportionately damaging to the stereotyped relative to the stereotyper's gains, .... If you apply some combination of "for God's sake, don't be dicks to each other" and "despite best efforts, people think I'm a dick, maybe I should reflect on that for a minute" then you'll probably do all right for yourself. Picking on incarceration rate as an example (I know you were asking about the nature of negative stereotypes, but let's assume you brought it up in some other context, just to have a hypothetical to work with), what purpose is stating that measurement serving? It doesn't help you with any decision you might be able to make, including parole, avoiding shadowy alley figures, hiring, lending, (even when legal), .... It strongly suggests something interesting going on, but there are too many obviously confounding variables to have a snowball's chance in Hell of using that statistic to make an informed decision about almost anything. Bringing it up, except in the context of using it as evidence that we need more data for something, is likely to happen because of and in service of a negative racial stereotype, and in most contexts that's how I'd interpret anyone making that statement.
Urahandystar 2y ago
Is that all Asian's in the world or just a subset you've selected? This is the issue being described you're blind to the bias in data you've chosen.
- leovingi 2y ago
  Not the OP, but I don't interact with all the asians in the world. If I interact only with a small subset of asians and there's an observable statistical outcome when it comes to that particular subset, then that is the information I personally care about and will find useful.

hansvm 2y ago

> factual statement Those are measurements, prone to their own biases and variances. > make a factual statement People make statements for reasons. "Just stating facts" still, usually, says something other than the fact being stated, and that other thing is usually the actual goal of the message. > stereotypes vs statistical differences It's not quite an either-or scenario. The act of stating something was, by itself, neither a stereotype nor a statistical difference. The measurements being stated were not stereotypes. The reason you stated them might have been because of or in service of a stereotype, and derived statements (like "asians are good at math") might be stereotypes. > negative stereotype This is a bit harder to pin down to a definition. Stereotypes are "negative" when they're untruthful, misleading, unhelpful to the stereotypers, disproportionately damaging to the stereotyped relative to the stereotyper's gains, .... If you apply some combination of "for God's sake, don't be dicks to each other" and "despite best efforts, people think I'm a dick, maybe I should reflect on that for a minute" then you'll probably do all right for yourself. Picking on incarceration rate as an example (I know you were asking about the nature of negative stereotypes, but let's assume you brought it up in some other context, just to have a hypothetical to work with), what purpose is stating that measurement serving? It doesn't help you with any decision you might be able to make, including parole, avoiding shadowy alley figures, hiring, lending, (even when legal), .... It strongly suggests something interesting going on, but there are too many obviously confounding variables to have a snowball's chance in Hell of using that statistic to make an informed decision about almost anything. Bringing it up, except in the context of using it as evidence that we need more data for something, is likely to happen because of and in service of a negative racial stereotype, and in most contexts that's how I'd interpret anyone making that statement.

Urahandystar 2y ago

Is that all Asian's in the world or just a subset you've selected? This is the issue being described you're blind to the bias in data you've chosen.

leovingi 2y ago
Not the OP, but I don't interact with all the asians in the world. If I interact only with a small subset of asians and there's an observable statistical outcome when it comes to that particular subset, then that is the information I personally care about and will find useful.