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Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago (Apple Intelligence), with a multi-tier architecture (on-device, private Apple compute, 3rd party mode

Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago (Apple Intelligence), with a multi-tier architecture (on-device, private Apple compute, 3rd party models), a ton of integrations, and a focus on privacy. My main problem with startups around this is that it’s just a big ask to get access to all my data and store it in their cloud.

talldayo 2y ago
> Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago ...after almost 10 years of internal stagnation and killing Siri's other upgrade projects: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-behind-siri-and-apple-ai/ https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-... It's just baffling. Same goes for Microsoft and how utterly unusable Cortana is, these features should be more than afterthought integrations that limp along because they're too cheap to get rid of. The slow "evolution" of voice assistants is pretty much ensuring that nobody wants to use them, at least among the people I know that own smartphones. Something tells me that AI won't be the selling point Apple thinks it is, especially when anyone with a web browser can use ChatGPT for free.
- cube2222 2y ago
  Sure, they’re taking their time. I’ve read through Apple’s Intelligence architecture and I liked what I saw (context graph on device; how the integrations work; if doing remote inference only sending the relevant parts; the architecture of private compute). I haven’t upgraded my phone in a while, and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally, and I’ve been using ChatGPT and now Claude from the moment they got to a sensible level. That all of them are taking their sweet time with this makes me think it was just hard to get something production-ready out that will work for 99% of the population well.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally So let me get this straight. You want AI features, but not the ChatGPT 4o functionality you can go use for free right now. You intend to upgrade to one of the Pro phones (the only ones guaranteed to get local AI functionality) for subpar AI functionality and less freedom to select an LLM that works for you? I don't get it. Since WWDC I've heard so much contradiction around what people want from Apple AI. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think it's absolute nonsense that someone would trust OpenAI only when Apple is the middleman. I certainly know the majority of smartphone customers couldn't care less.
    - cube2222 2y ago
      I think you missed the part that ChatGPT is completely optional in Apple’s architecture. You have to explicitly allow ChatGPT per-prompt if you want to use it. The primary models are on-device and their “private compute“. Importantly, I have a fair bit of trust towards OpenAI, but I’m not willing to share the details of half my digital life with them. After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        > After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context. I would take those whitepapers with a grain of salt if I were you. Apple's documentation has been known for redacting certain... details, per the request of the US government. Plus, it's not like you or I can go audit the tech (or even the code) and confirm it's the same as in the documentation. Then again, I trust OpenAI and Apple both as far as I can throw them. Maybe it is me being overly discriminate about what I consider secure and not.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      > I don't get it That's very obvious from your comment. Apple Intelligence is an on-device LLM backed by a private Apple hosted LLM. So it has access to your private data and is designed to provide capabilities that can leverage it e.g. it will have knowledge of all your personal interactions across multiple apps. It is fundamentally a personal experience. It is completely different from ChatGPT which is a single LLM that is used to provide a public experience. And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        > And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps. That's what I'm talking about, really. Why would you buy a new iPhone to get functionality you can receive from the App Store? I can see two reasons. You're either one of the evergreen sycophants that buys into Apple's security theater, or you're an obsessive Apple-maniac that will use any of their products no matter how bad they are. Those are two miniscule audiences, in the market of current and future iPhone owners. You would have to show me market research to convince me that even 5% of iPhone owners fall into either category. So I'll ask again: does anyone really think an inferior local AI with access to your contacts list is going to drive upgrades? Mind you, in the EU Apple isn't even shipping these features because they have to mysteriously and arbitrarily prevent developers from offering competing AI integrations.
  - webappguy 2y ago
    Please. Don't mention apple and AI in the same sentance. Siri is worse than zero, it is utterly absolutely useless. And to partner with OpenAI. They have to get their S** in order here and fast, but if I put out a product like Siri I would be INSANELY embarrassed. If I was a trillion-dollar company and did, I would resign in discrace.
- Terretta 2y ago
  > Same goes for Microsoft and how utterly unusable Cortana is... “Alexa, how much are you costing Amazon per user and how much do they want to charge me to revamp it?” “Thank you for asking. Here is a top rated result”: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/06/hey-alexa-what-are-you-doing-my-data https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/06/hey-alexa... Sorry, she meant to show you this: https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-mulls-5-10-monthly-price-tag-unprofitable-alexa-service-ai-revamp-2024-06-21/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-mulls-5-10-monthly...
  - talldayo 2y ago
    It will be a consummate miracle if spending more on AI-based NLP somehow becomes more profitable than the cheaper alternatives.

talldayo 2y ago

> Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago ...after almost 10 years of internal stagnation and killing Siri's other upgrade projects: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-behind-siri-and-apple-ai/ https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-... It's just baffling. Same goes for Microsoft and how utterly unusable Cortana is, these features should be more than afterthought integrations that limp along because they're too cheap to get rid of. The slow "evolution" of voice assistants is pretty much ensuring that nobody wants to use them, at least among the people I know that own smartphones. Something tells me that AI won't be the selling point Apple thinks it is, especially when anyone with a web browser can use ChatGPT for free.

cube2222 2y ago
Sure, they’re taking their time. I’ve read through Apple’s Intelligence architecture and I liked what I saw (context graph on device; how the integrations work; if doing remote inference only sending the relevant parts; the architecture of private compute). I haven’t upgraded my phone in a while, and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally, and I’ve been using ChatGPT and now Claude from the moment they got to a sensible level. That all of them are taking their sweet time with this makes me think it was just hard to get something production-ready out that will work for 99% of the population well.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally So let me get this straight. You want AI features, but not the ChatGPT 4o functionality you can go use for free right now. You intend to upgrade to one of the Pro phones (the only ones guaranteed to get local AI functionality) for subpar AI functionality and less freedom to select an LLM that works for you? I don't get it. Since WWDC I've heard so much contradiction around what people want from Apple AI. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think it's absolute nonsense that someone would trust OpenAI only when Apple is the middleman. I certainly know the majority of smartphone customers couldn't care less.
  - cube2222 2y ago
    I think you missed the part that ChatGPT is completely optional in Apple’s architecture. You have to explicitly allow ChatGPT per-prompt if you want to use it. The primary models are on-device and their “private compute“. Importantly, I have a fair bit of trust towards OpenAI, but I’m not willing to share the details of half my digital life with them. After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      > After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context. I would take those whitepapers with a grain of salt if I were you. Apple's documentation has been known for redacting certain... details, per the request of the US government. Plus, it's not like you or I can go audit the tech (or even the code) and confirm it's the same as in the documentation. Then again, I trust OpenAI and Apple both as far as I can throw them. Maybe it is me being overly discriminate about what I consider secure and not.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    > I don't get it That's very obvious from your comment. Apple Intelligence is an on-device LLM backed by a private Apple hosted LLM. So it has access to your private data and is designed to provide capabilities that can leverage it e.g. it will have knowledge of all your personal interactions across multiple apps. It is fundamentally a personal experience. It is completely different from ChatGPT which is a single LLM that is used to provide a public experience. And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      > And nothing is stopping you from using Claude, Mistral or any other LLMs through their existing apps. That's what I'm talking about, really. Why would you buy a new iPhone to get functionality you can receive from the App Store? I can see two reasons. You're either one of the evergreen sycophants that buys into Apple's security theater, or you're an obsessive Apple-maniac that will use any of their products no matter how bad they are. Those are two miniscule audiences, in the market of current and future iPhone owners. You would have to show me market research to convince me that even 5% of iPhone owners fall into either category. So I'll ask again: does anyone really think an inferior local AI with access to your contacts list is going to drive upgrades? Mind you, in the EU Apple isn't even shipping these features because they have to mysteriously and arbitrarily prevent developers from offering competing AI integrations.
- webappguy 2y ago
  Please. Don't mention apple and AI in the same sentance. Siri is worse than zero, it is utterly absolutely useless. And to partner with OpenAI. They have to get their S** in order here and fast, but if I put out a product like Siri I would be INSANELY embarrassed. If I was a trillion-dollar company and did, I would resign in discrace.
Terretta 2y ago
> Same goes for Microsoft and how utterly unusable Cortana is... “Alexa, how much are you costing Amazon per user and how much do they want to charge me to revamp it?” “Thank you for asking. Here is a top rated result”: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/06/hey-alexa-what-are-you-doing-my-data https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/06/hey-alexa... Sorry, she meant to show you this: https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-mulls-5-10-monthly-price-tag-unprofitable-alexa-service-ai-revamp-2024-06-21/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-mulls-5-10-monthly...
- talldayo 2y ago
  It will be a consummate miracle if spending more on AI-based NLP somehow becomes more profitable than the cheaper alternatives.