4 ms·

I honestly don't understand why tech giants aren't doing this stuff.

by robertlagrant 2y ago

darweenist 2y ago
Same! We've all been waiting for an upgrade from Apple/Google for the last 10 years.
- p1esk 2y ago
  Apple plans to update Siri to use OpenAI models in iOS 18. Not sure how it will affect this startup.
  - cube2222 2y ago
    They’re planning to update it to use on-device models, their “private compute” models, and optionally for certain prompts (with explicit user approval) OpenAI models. This is not directly in contradiction to what you said, but I feel like there’s a lot of confusion around this.
Gys 2y ago
You missed it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41116563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41116563
cube2222 2y ago
Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago (Apple Intelligence), with a multi-tier architecture (on-device, private Apple compute, 3rd party models), a ton of integrations, and a focus on privacy. My main problem with startups around this is that it’s just a big ask to get access to all my data and store it in their cloud.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago ...after almost 10 years of internal stagnation and killing Siri's other upgrade projects: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-behind-siri-and-apple-ai/ https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-... It's just baffling. Same goes for Microsoft and how utterly unusable Cortana is, these features should be more than afterthought integrations that limp along because they're too cheap to get rid of. The slow "evolution" of voice assistants is pretty much ensuring that nobody wants to use them, at least among the people I know that own smartphones. Something tells me that AI won't be the selling point Apple thinks it is, especially when anyone with a web browser can use ChatGPT for free.
  - cube2222 2y ago
    Sure, they’re taking their time. I’ve read through Apple’s Intelligence architecture and I liked what I saw (context graph on device; how the integrations work; if doing remote inference only sending the relevant parts; the architecture of private compute). I haven’t upgraded my phone in a while, and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally, and I’ve been using ChatGPT and now Claude from the moment they got to a sensible level. That all of them are taking their sweet time with this makes me think it was just hard to get something production-ready out that will work for 99% of the population well.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      > and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally So let me get this straight. You want AI features, but not the ChatGPT 4o functionality you can go use for free right now. You intend to upgrade to one of the Pro phones (the only ones guaranteed to get local AI functionality) for subpar AI functionality and less freedom to select an LLM that works for you? I don't get it. Since WWDC I've heard so much contradiction around what people want from Apple AI. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think it's absolute nonsense that someone would trust OpenAI only when Apple is the middleman. I certainly know the majority of smartphone customers couldn't care less.
      - cube2222 2y ago
        I think you missed the part that ChatGPT is completely optional in Apple’s architecture. You have to explicitly allow ChatGPT per-prompt if you want to use it. The primary models are on-device and their “private compute“. Importantly, I have a fair bit of trust towards OpenAI, but I’m not willing to share the details of half my digital life with them. After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context.
        talldayo 2y ago
        > After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context. I would take those whitepapers with a grain of salt if I were you. Apple's documentation has been known for redacting certain... details, per the request of the US government. Plus, it's not like you or I can go audit the tech (or even the code) and confirm it's the same as in the documentation. Then again, I trust OpenAI and Apple both as far as I can throw them. Maybe it is me being overly discriminate about what I consider secure and not.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
They move slow. Smaller folks can move fast. "Sherlocked" potential is high, but on the bright side, could move the needle on open source capabilities in this space (if they can do, someone else can do). A rising tide lifts all boats. And it is great PR regardless for the folks building from a portfolio perspective if they have to pivot or move on to other endeavors.
cellis 2y ago
Because if TECH GIANT gets this sort of thing wrong (CCPA,GDPR,ePR, anti-trust, <add acronym here>) there is <fine_bigger_than_your_series_C> waiting for them.
apwell23 2y ago
Apple wants their shit to be tight. They cannot release stuff that hallucinates. I am guessing its against their philosophy to release product that only works sometimes from the get go. Thats why they have been so demure about whole AI stuff.
- atonse 2y ago
  I do think in general, Apple is great at continuous improvement. But have you used Siri? “Only works sometimes”, yes if all you ever ask is “what time is it”, what’s the weather, and maybe 5-6 other canned prompts. Half the time it doesn’t even understand or catch what’s being said. (Mainly talking about the HomePod, it generally works fine on an iPhone) Siri is a great example of Apple being perfectly fine letting a product languish so what might’ve been great 10 years ago is a punchline now.
vendiddy 2y ago
I'm equally surprised. It has been a few years and my Android assistant is still dumb. I would have expected the iOS/Android assistants to be much better by now.

I honestly don't understand why tech giants aren't doing this stuff.

darweenist 2y ago

Same! We've all been waiting for an upgrade from Apple/Google for the last 10 years.

p1esk 2y ago
Apple plans to update Siri to use OpenAI models in iOS 18. Not sure how it will affect this startup.
- cube2222 2y ago
  They’re planning to update it to use on-device models, their “private compute” models, and optionally for certain prompts (with explicit user approval) OpenAI models. This is not directly in contradiction to what you said, but I feel like there’s a lot of confusion around this.

Gys 2y ago

You missed it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41116563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41116563

cube2222 2y ago

Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago (Apple Intelligence), with a multi-tier architecture (on-device, private Apple compute, 3rd party models), a ton of integrations, and a focus on privacy. My main problem with startups around this is that it’s just a big ask to get access to all my data and store it in their cloud.

talldayo 2y ago
> Apple has announced basically this on WWDC two months ago ...after almost 10 years of internal stagnation and killing Siri's other upgrade projects: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-behind-siri-and-apple-ai/ https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-turmoil-... It's just baffling. Same goes for Microsoft and how utterly unusable Cortana is, these features should be more than afterthought integrations that limp along because they're too cheap to get rid of. The slow "evolution" of voice assistants is pretty much ensuring that nobody wants to use them, at least among the people I know that own smartphones. Something tells me that AI won't be the selling point Apple thinks it is, especially when anyone with a web browser can use ChatGPT for free.
- cube2222 2y ago
  Sure, they’re taking their time. I’ve read through Apple’s Intelligence architecture and I liked what I saw (context graph on device; how the integrations work; if doing remote inference only sending the relevant parts; the architecture of private compute). I haven’t upgraded my phone in a while, and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally, and I’ve been using ChatGPT and now Claude from the moment they got to a sensible level. That all of them are taking their sweet time with this makes me think it was just hard to get something production-ready out that will work for 99% of the population well.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > and this will be the final push for me to get their next phone, personally So let me get this straight. You want AI features, but not the ChatGPT 4o functionality you can go use for free right now. You intend to upgrade to one of the Pro phones (the only ones guaranteed to get local AI functionality) for subpar AI functionality and less freedom to select an LLM that works for you? I don't get it. Since WWDC I've heard so much contradiction around what people want from Apple AI. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think it's absolute nonsense that someone would trust OpenAI only when Apple is the middleman. I certainly know the majority of smartphone customers couldn't care less.
    - cube2222 2y ago
      I think you missed the part that ChatGPT is completely optional in Apple’s architecture. You have to explicitly allow ChatGPT per-prompt if you want to use it. The primary models are on-device and their “private compute“. Importantly, I have a fair bit of trust towards OpenAI, but I’m not willing to share the details of half my digital life with them. After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        > After reading Apple’s Intelligence architecture, I feel fairly comfortable with having it use the data from all my various apps for context. I would take those whitepapers with a grain of salt if I were you. Apple's documentation has been known for redacting certain... details, per the request of the US government. Plus, it's not like you or I can go audit the tech (or even the code) and confirm it's the same as in the documentation. Then again, I trust OpenAI and Apple both as far as I can throw them. Maybe it is me being overly discriminate about what I consider secure and not.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

They move slow. Smaller folks can move fast. "Sherlocked" potential is high, but on the bright side, could move the needle on open source capabilities in this space (if they can do, someone else can do). A rising tide lifts all boats. And it is great PR regardless for the folks building from a portfolio perspective if they have to pivot or move on to other endeavors.

cellis 2y ago

Because if TECH GIANT gets this sort of thing wrong (CCPA,GDPR,ePR, anti-trust, <add acronym here>) there is <fine_bigger_than_your_series_C> waiting for them.

apwell23 2y ago

Apple wants their shit to be tight. They cannot release stuff that hallucinates. I am guessing its against their philosophy to release product that only works sometimes from the get go. Thats why they have been so demure about whole AI stuff.

atonse 2y ago
I do think in general, Apple is great at continuous improvement. But have you used Siri? “Only works sometimes”, yes if all you ever ask is “what time is it”, what’s the weather, and maybe 5-6 other canned prompts. Half the time it doesn’t even understand or catch what’s being said. (Mainly talking about the HomePod, it generally works fine on an iPhone) Siri is a great example of Apple being perfectly fine letting a product languish so what might’ve been great 10 years ago is a punchline now.

vendiddy 2y ago

I'm equally surprised. It has been a few years and my Android assistant is still dumb. I would have expected the iOS/Android assistants to be much better by now.