4 ms·

I believe (maybe someone has a study on this) one of the main drivers of changing social habits among humans is the ratio of dopamine / cortisol. When we're you

by jcfrei 2y ago

I believe (maybe someone has a study on this) one of the main drivers of changing social habits among humans is the ratio of dopamine / cortisol. When we're younger dopamine releases happen more frequently, we feel energized, ready to take risks and are optimistic. As we grow older the ratio of cortisol releases increases, making us anxious, risk averse and depressed in our outlook. Might be similar for these deer.

bena 2y ago
As you get older things hurt. The wear and tear one has put on their bodies adds up. For an extreme example, look at professional athletes. Drew Brees still had the desire and drive to play, but his right shoulder had simply given out. The final result of an injury over a decade ago. He cannot throw right handed anymore. A lot of these guys require knee replacements after they retire. Permanently disfigured fingers and toes. Etc. And we all go through a version of that.
- jcfrei 2y ago
  So would it be fair to say that the increase in cortisol is also a protection mechanism? Since older bodies are less able to heal injuries the cortisol increase acts to prevent behavior that might damage them?
  - bena 2y ago
    I'm saying that it's quite possible not related to cortisol at all. Or possibly you have the cause and effect backwards. Because of all the wear and tear, we become more cautious about certain activities, which causes more stress, which then causes us to produce cortisol.
    - InitialLastName 2y ago
      Even just the chronic pain of old age (as seen in humans and other animals) would seem sufficient to cause stress. There's a reason painkillers are such a nefarious addiction; chronic pain happens to everyone eventually and has a profound impact on quality of life.
  - alan-hn 2y ago
    Cortisol can actually act as a painkiller and reduces inflammation allowing us to work through injury
- apwell23 2y ago
  > A lot of these guys require knee replacements after they retire. Ppl usually getting knee replacements are couch potatoes. Its a not "wear and tear" disease like a lot of ppl belive it to be.
  - bena 2y ago
    No, spending your time running at full speed into other large people also running at full speed takes a toll on your body. https://footballplayershealth.harvard.edu/for-former-players/results/knee-and-hip-replacement-in-former-nfl-players/ https://footballplayershealth.harvard.edu/for-former-players...
    - apwell23 2y ago
      We don't really know if its from "wear and tear" or from steroid abuse which weakens bones and ligaments, artificially high bodyweight, injuries during practice and in the gym.
    - detoured299 2y ago
      to be fair, op is correct that the majority of people that get replacements fall in the sedentary demographic and don't have a history of intense physical activity. metabolic issues and pro-inflammatory factors, not mechanical stress, are for many people the primary driver of osteoarthritis and soft tissue issues more generally.
      - bena 2y ago
        But people who play professional sports do get joint replacement at a higher rate than even the general population. Just because there are more of the "general population" doesn't mean that the subset that are "professional athlete" isn't doing it at a higher percentage. And there are other, non-extreme, things that also wreck the body. Working in the trades: plumbers, electricians, HVAC, construction, etc. will often leave you with bad backs and bad joints. And yes, living your life at the extremes is going to have extreme effects on your body. Sedentary is the other extreme of professional athlete. But even still, as things hurt more, we will be more cautious about endangering ourselves. Or even wondering if we are capable. If I can't walk without a limp, I'm sure as hell not running from danger. That's not cortisol driving our behavior, that's our behavior driving our cortisol.
- resource_waste 2y ago
  I have stomach issues and its really hard to mentally deal with life when you are in pain. If I just got laid by a 10/10 hottie, I'd probably not care much about my kid intentionally dropping food on the ground. If I just had a stomach issue that has me tired, out of breath, and mentally struggling, my kid dropping food makes me angry. Its really easy to say 'let it go', 'be a stoic'. But its much harder when you are in so much physical pain, you can't even work on your life's goals.
aitchnyu 2y ago
Is there any hack for maintaining the d/c ratio as we get older?
- azemetre 2y ago
  Maybe there’s a reason why you want a lower d/c ratio when you’re old. If you have a life of lived experiences it can be risky to continue to collect them when you’re less physically fit.
- sebastiansm 2y ago
  The "hack" is pretty simple, but few implement it: -Sleep -Nutrition -Exercise -Relationships
apwell23 2y ago
> depressed in our outlook. I always read that older ppl get happier as they age https://socialecology.uci.edu/news/better-age https://socialecology.uci.edu/news/better-age
- djeastm 2y ago
  I think it's more nuanced than the article headline suggests. People get happier into middle adulthood, but after that it's more variable From the study linked (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36848104/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36848104/): >Yet, longitudinal findings vary across younger, middle-aged, and older adults. Psychological distress decreases over time among younger adults (although only until age 33 for weekly reports), remains stable in midlife, and is stable (monthly) or slightly increases (daily and weekly) among older adults. For negative affect, levels decrease over time for younger and middle-aged adults, and only increase for the oldest adults for daily and monthly affect
  - b112 2y ago
    I'd be curious for aged males and sex enhancement drugs. That's obviously a reward missing as men age, so would happiness improve?
    - et-al 2y ago
      Young people are told they can do anything, which actually leads to unhappiness as experience their limitations through trial and error. By the time one is in their mid-thirties, you know your limits, know what you're good at, and what brings you joy, so you stop wasting your time on the unnecessary (* excluding the super-genius VC masters of the universe growth mindset hackers among us). tl;dr self actualization brings happiness
      - SoftTalker 2y ago
        Well I'm nearly 60 and I don't think I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm good at of the things I've tried, but there's so much I haven't tried. I'm pretty sure there are things I'd be better at than what I do, but I'm good enough at what I do to earn a pretty good living so that is what I do. I also realize that I'm in a field where even mediocre ability is outlandishly well rewarded, and I try to keep that in mind. There are a lot of people working harder than I do and better and what they do than I am but who are earning a lot less. I've also accepted that I'll never be able to try everything, and there are some roads I didn't take when I had the chance that are now permanently closed off.
brailsafe 2y ago
> As we grow older the ratio of cortisol releases increases, making us anxious, risk averse and depressed in our outlook. Might be similar for these deer. With the exception of reduced risk acceptance, my anecdotal experience is that a generalized sense of anxiety seems more present in people a few years younger more than older. I'd guess that if surveyed on different causes or topics of anxiety, you'd see a few spikes in certain predictable areas up to about age ~42 maybe, with a more significant gap between there and ~70

by jcfrei 2y ago

bena 2y ago

As you get older things hurt. The wear and tear one has put on their bodies adds up. For an extreme example, look at professional athletes. Drew Brees still had the desire and drive to play, but his right shoulder had simply given out. The final result of an injury over a decade ago. He cannot throw right handed anymore. A lot of these guys require knee replacements after they retire. Permanently disfigured fingers and toes. Etc. And we all go through a version of that.

jcfrei 2y ago
So would it be fair to say that the increase in cortisol is also a protection mechanism? Since older bodies are less able to heal injuries the cortisol increase acts to prevent behavior that might damage them?
- bena 2y ago
  I'm saying that it's quite possible not related to cortisol at all. Or possibly you have the cause and effect backwards. Because of all the wear and tear, we become more cautious about certain activities, which causes more stress, which then causes us to produce cortisol.
  - InitialLastName 2y ago
    Even just the chronic pain of old age (as seen in humans and other animals) would seem sufficient to cause stress. There's a reason painkillers are such a nefarious addiction; chronic pain happens to everyone eventually and has a profound impact on quality of life.
- alan-hn 2y ago
  Cortisol can actually act as a painkiller and reduces inflammation allowing us to work through injury
apwell23 2y ago
> A lot of these guys require knee replacements after they retire. Ppl usually getting knee replacements are couch potatoes. Its a not "wear and tear" disease like a lot of ppl belive it to be.
- bena 2y ago
  No, spending your time running at full speed into other large people also running at full speed takes a toll on your body. https://footballplayershealth.harvard.edu/for-former-players/results/knee-and-hip-replacement-in-former-nfl-players/ https://footballplayershealth.harvard.edu/for-former-players...
  - apwell23 2y ago
    We don't really know if its from "wear and tear" or from steroid abuse which weakens bones and ligaments, artificially high bodyweight, injuries during practice and in the gym.
  - detoured299 2y ago
    to be fair, op is correct that the majority of people that get replacements fall in the sedentary demographic and don't have a history of intense physical activity. metabolic issues and pro-inflammatory factors, not mechanical stress, are for many people the primary driver of osteoarthritis and soft tissue issues more generally.
    - bena 2y ago
      But people who play professional sports do get joint replacement at a higher rate than even the general population. Just because there are more of the "general population" doesn't mean that the subset that are "professional athlete" isn't doing it at a higher percentage. And there are other, non-extreme, things that also wreck the body. Working in the trades: plumbers, electricians, HVAC, construction, etc. will often leave you with bad backs and bad joints. And yes, living your life at the extremes is going to have extreme effects on your body. Sedentary is the other extreme of professional athlete. But even still, as things hurt more, we will be more cautious about endangering ourselves. Or even wondering if we are capable. If I can't walk without a limp, I'm sure as hell not running from danger. That's not cortisol driving our behavior, that's our behavior driving our cortisol.
resource_waste 2y ago
I have stomach issues and its really hard to mentally deal with life when you are in pain. If I just got laid by a 10/10 hottie, I'd probably not care much about my kid intentionally dropping food on the ground. If I just had a stomach issue that has me tired, out of breath, and mentally struggling, my kid dropping food makes me angry. Its really easy to say 'let it go', 'be a stoic'. But its much harder when you are in so much physical pain, you can't even work on your life's goals.

aitchnyu 2y ago

Is there any hack for maintaining the d/c ratio as we get older?

azemetre 2y ago
Maybe there’s a reason why you want a lower d/c ratio when you’re old. If you have a life of lived experiences it can be risky to continue to collect them when you’re less physically fit.
sebastiansm 2y ago
The "hack" is pretty simple, but few implement it: -Sleep -Nutrition -Exercise -Relationships

apwell23 2y ago

> depressed in our outlook. I always read that older ppl get happier as they age https://socialecology.uci.edu/news/better-age https://socialecology.uci.edu/news/better-age

djeastm 2y ago
I think it's more nuanced than the article headline suggests. People get happier into middle adulthood, but after that it's more variable From the study linked (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36848104/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36848104/): >Yet, longitudinal findings vary across younger, middle-aged, and older adults. Psychological distress decreases over time among younger adults (although only until age 33 for weekly reports), remains stable in midlife, and is stable (monthly) or slightly increases (daily and weekly) among older adults. For negative affect, levels decrease over time for younger and middle-aged adults, and only increase for the oldest adults for daily and monthly affect
- b112 2y ago
  I'd be curious for aged males and sex enhancement drugs. That's obviously a reward missing as men age, so would happiness improve?
  - et-al 2y ago
    Young people are told they can do anything, which actually leads to unhappiness as experience their limitations through trial and error. By the time one is in their mid-thirties, you know your limits, know what you're good at, and what brings you joy, so you stop wasting your time on the unnecessary (* excluding the super-genius VC masters of the universe growth mindset hackers among us). tl;dr self actualization brings happiness
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      Well I'm nearly 60 and I don't think I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm good at of the things I've tried, but there's so much I haven't tried. I'm pretty sure there are things I'd be better at than what I do, but I'm good enough at what I do to earn a pretty good living so that is what I do. I also realize that I'm in a field where even mediocre ability is outlandishly well rewarded, and I try to keep that in mind. There are a lot of people working harder than I do and better and what they do than I am but who are earning a lot less. I've also accepted that I'll never be able to try everything, and there are some roads I didn't take when I had the chance that are now permanently closed off.

brailsafe 2y ago

> As we grow older the ratio of cortisol releases increases, making us anxious, risk averse and depressed in our outlook. Might be similar for these deer. With the exception of reduced risk acceptance, my anecdotal experience is that a generalized sense of anxiety seems more present in people a few years younger more than older. I'd guess that if surveyed on different causes or topics of anxiety, you'd see a few spikes in certain predictable areas up to about age ~42 maybe, with a more significant gap between there and ~70