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First I agree the driver shouldn't have been on their phone no matter what. I think before passing judgement though, I would like to know how a human would hav

First I agree the driver shouldn't have been on their phone no matter what. I think before passing judgement though, I would like to know how a human would have performed. Aviation investigations often recreate scenarios in a simulator and then have other pilots fly them. I'd imagine something similar could be done for cars. FSD is pretty good at motorcycle detection and has the advantage of cameras looking in all directions.

Log_out_ 2y ago
But.. It has been here for many years, overpromising, under delivering at full price. And all it did was ride the coat tails of the tonystark "still relevant"fantasy of men everywhere. No,the world is already carved up, nobody gets a slice by wits alone unless already owing a bone. Meanwhile waymo quietly walked the walk.. No buts,no ifs,just a stif
kanbara 2y ago
FSD is terrible and shouldn’t be road legal. The FSD caused the accident regardless of how a human looking at the road would’ve performed.
- TSP00N3 2y ago
  2024 Q1: “we recorded one crash for every 7.63 million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology. For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology, we recorded one crash for every 955,000 miles driven. By comparison, the most recent data available from NHTSA and FHWA (from 2022) shows that in the United States, there was an automobile crash approximately every 670,000 miles.” [0] And for further info that includes a comparison to Waymo see [1]. Doesn’t seem right to call something that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. [0] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-releases-vehicle-safety-report-for-q1-2024/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-releases-vehicle-safety-repo... [1] https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/07/tesla-autopilot-fsd-and-robotaxi-safety-versus-human.html https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/07/tesla-autopilot-fsd-an...
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    > that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. Of maybe your “metrics” are just slightly dishonest? Presumably you can only use FSD under conditions where accidents are already significantly less likely to happen (per mile driven) like freeways etc? Which makes this an apples to oranges comparison. Turning “FSD” off just before an accident is likely to happen without necessarily giving enough time for the driver to react would also be very helpful (although I’m not sure how the cases would be recorded specifically )
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    > Doesn’t seem right to call something that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. Quick question: are there roads or conditions Autopilot doesn't do well on, so can't or won't be activated? I don't see Autopilot working well in a bitter New England winter storm at night. Or a torrential Florida downpour. That's why those metrics suck. And Tesla knows. They compare "all drivers, all conditions" to the "idealist, best case subset of miles driven by Autopilot".
  - pengaru 2y ago
    Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
    >> Doesn’t seem right to call something that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. Check out the guidelines: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
RaftPeople 2y ago
> I would like to know how a human would have performed Well, his vehicle was the only one on that busy highway that afternoon that "lurched forward while accelerating" and crashed into the motorcycle in front of him, so I think we have the answer to your question.
dmazzoni 2y ago
I think it'd also be worth comparing it to cars that have more basic collision-avoidance. I don't expect Tesla's FSD to be perfect. But I do expect it to not be worse than the simple and effective collision avoidance that nearly all new cars have.

Log_out_ 2y ago

But.. It has been here for many years, overpromising, under delivering at full price. And all it did was ride the coat tails of the tonystark "still relevant"fantasy of men everywhere. No,the world is already carved up, nobody gets a slice by wits alone unless already owing a bone. Meanwhile waymo quietly walked the walk.. No buts,no ifs,just a stif

kanbara 2y ago

FSD is terrible and shouldn’t be road legal. The FSD caused the accident regardless of how a human looking at the road would’ve performed.

TSP00N3 2y ago
2024 Q1: “we recorded one crash for every 7.63 million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology. For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology, we recorded one crash for every 955,000 miles driven. By comparison, the most recent data available from NHTSA and FHWA (from 2022) shows that in the United States, there was an automobile crash approximately every 670,000 miles.” [0] And for further info that includes a comparison to Waymo see [1]. Doesn’t seem right to call something that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. [0] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-releases-vehicle-safety-report-for-q1-2024/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-releases-vehicle-safety-repo... [1] https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/07/tesla-autopilot-fsd-and-robotaxi-safety-versus-human.html https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/07/tesla-autopilot-fsd-an...
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  > that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. Of maybe your “metrics” are just slightly dishonest? Presumably you can only use FSD under conditions where accidents are already significantly less likely to happen (per mile driven) like freeways etc? Which makes this an apples to oranges comparison. Turning “FSD” off just before an accident is likely to happen without necessarily giving enough time for the driver to react would also be very helpful (although I’m not sure how the cases would be recorded specifically )
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > Doesn’t seem right to call something that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. Quick question: are there roads or conditions Autopilot doesn't do well on, so can't or won't be activated? I don't see Autopilot working well in a bitter New England winter storm at night. Or a torrential Florida downpour. That's why those metrics suck. And Tesla knows. They compare "all drivers, all conditions" to the "idealist, best case subset of miles driven by Autopilot".
- pengaru 2y ago
  Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
- YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
  >> Doesn’t seem right to call something that is 10x safer “terrible”, but maybe you have different metrics you are looking at. Check out the guidelines: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

RaftPeople 2y ago

> I would like to know how a human would have performed Well, his vehicle was the only one on that busy highway that afternoon that "lurched forward while accelerating" and crashed into the motorcycle in front of him, so I think we have the answer to your question.

dmazzoni 2y ago

I think it'd also be worth comparing it to cars that have more basic collision-avoidance. I don't expect Tesla's FSD to be perfect. But I do expect it to not be worse than the simple and effective collision avoidance that nearly all new cars have.