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All very nice and handwavey, but then you see the user’s current venture is scammy deepfakes as a service, which is about as creatively bankrupt as it gets. Sh

All very nice and handwavey, but then you see the user’s current venture is scammy deepfakes as a service, which is about as creatively bankrupt as it gets. Shame about the national stereotypes as well. There is plenty of creativity in Asian countries. Just bizarre assertions all around.

CuriouslyC 2y ago
Historically eastern Asian cultures have placed duty to a whole host of things before oneself, and in many cases the old aphorism "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" applies as well. Plus Japan and Korea have well established cultures of adherence to tradition and mastering simple, time tested things to a ridiculous degree rather than trying to innovate. Not true of everyone, but if you compare a culture that values conformity and tradition to a country that values the freedom for the individual and trying new things, of course it's not going to measure up by western standards of creativity.
- watwut 2y ago
  Have you seen their art and entertainment? I assure you there is whole lot of creativity in there. And it has a whole lot MORE variety then western tend to have.
  - corimaith 2y ago
    Their art and entertainment in many cases are rebellions and critiques from mainstream norms. The funny thing is that if you have a rigid conformist society, the rejects are going to double down on the "weird" much more than a well adjusted creative would.
    - Barrin92 2y ago
      >Their art and entertainment in many cases are rebellions and critiques from mainstream norms No, that's just the art that Western readers notice because that's the only thing they recognize as art in the first place. Calligraphy (in China traditionally considered the most important form of visual art) for example has an astonishing tradition in East Asia, also notably related to the topic of the thread, memorization and repetition and practice and has very little to do with critiques of norms.
      - watwut 2y ago
        I found asian genres to be way more diverse and creative then western entertainment even when they dont criticize anything. Western entertainment tend to produce the same story, in like, two genres, again and again and again and again. Most of the time you can predict the movie storyline down to minute - and people will argue that it is the only correct way.
        CuriouslyC 2y ago
        The people arguing that is the only correct way are the capitalists putting their money on the line, and that comes from a perspective of being risk averse, which is why "corporate art" in America is in such a shambles. Independent video and music are in a great state though.
      - CuriouslyC 2y ago
        Are you seriously going to hold up calligraphy as an example of extreme Asian creativity? The art of writing letters with subtle flourish? It's literally an art of understatement, and embodies all the characteristics that I stated are reasons east Asians are culturally biased towards being less innovative.
        Barrin92 2y ago
        Yes. Understatement, subtlety and an eye for detail aren't opposites of creativity, it's actually sad that this even needs to be stated. There's no indicator at all that Asian societies are, in any way, biased against being innovative. I recommend reading Jun'ichirō Tanizaki's In Praise of Shadows, it's a fantastic read on the indirect and minimal ways in which Asian societies express creativity and aesthetics. Just because you're loud and brash and write your inventions on your forehead doesn't mean you actually are more innovative or creative than anyone else. I know we've had bad comedians in the West who have made careers out of thinking that being loud equals being funny but you seem to have made an entire worldview out of that idea.
        CuriouslyC 2y ago
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      I mean you could say that of most art and entertainment. That’s kind of the _point_; to a large extent it’s how you make new stuff.

CuriouslyC 2y ago

Historically eastern Asian cultures have placed duty to a whole host of things before oneself, and in many cases the old aphorism "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" applies as well. Plus Japan and Korea have well established cultures of adherence to tradition and mastering simple, time tested things to a ridiculous degree rather than trying to innovate. Not true of everyone, but if you compare a culture that values conformity and tradition to a country that values the freedom for the individual and trying new things, of course it's not going to measure up by western standards of creativity.

watwut 2y ago
Have you seen their art and entertainment? I assure you there is whole lot of creativity in there. And it has a whole lot MORE variety then western tend to have.
- corimaith 2y ago
  Their art and entertainment in many cases are rebellions and critiques from mainstream norms. The funny thing is that if you have a rigid conformist society, the rejects are going to double down on the "weird" much more than a well adjusted creative would.
  - Barrin92 2y ago
    >Their art and entertainment in many cases are rebellions and critiques from mainstream norms No, that's just the art that Western readers notice because that's the only thing they recognize as art in the first place. Calligraphy (in China traditionally considered the most important form of visual art) for example has an astonishing tradition in East Asia, also notably related to the topic of the thread, memorization and repetition and practice and has very little to do with critiques of norms.
    - watwut 2y ago
      I found asian genres to be way more diverse and creative then western entertainment even when they dont criticize anything. Western entertainment tend to produce the same story, in like, two genres, again and again and again and again. Most of the time you can predict the movie storyline down to minute - and people will argue that it is the only correct way.
      - CuriouslyC 2y ago
        The people arguing that is the only correct way are the capitalists putting their money on the line, and that comes from a perspective of being risk averse, which is why "corporate art" in America is in such a shambles. Independent video and music are in a great state though.
    - CuriouslyC 2y ago
      Are you seriously going to hold up calligraphy as an example of extreme Asian creativity? The art of writing letters with subtle flourish? It's literally an art of understatement, and embodies all the characteristics that I stated are reasons east Asians are culturally biased towards being less innovative.
      - Barrin92 2y ago
        Yes. Understatement, subtlety and an eye for detail aren't opposites of creativity, it's actually sad that this even needs to be stated. There's no indicator at all that Asian societies are, in any way, biased against being innovative. I recommend reading Jun'ichirō Tanizaki's In Praise of Shadows, it's a fantastic read on the indirect and minimal ways in which Asian societies express creativity and aesthetics. Just because you're loud and brash and write your inventions on your forehead doesn't mean you actually are more innovative or creative than anyone else. I know we've had bad comedians in the West who have made careers out of thinking that being loud equals being funny but you seem to have made an entire worldview out of that idea.
        CuriouslyC 2y ago
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    I mean you could say that of most art and entertainment. That’s kind of the _point_; to a large extent it’s how you make new stuff.