3 ms·

Aren't the "speculators" a bit of a boogeyman? Nobody complains when the speculators provide economic benefit (which studies say they do). Besides the general

by crusso 14y ago

Aren't the "speculators" a bit of a boogeyman? Nobody complains when the speculators provide economic benefit (which studies say they do). Besides the general market efficiencies that speculation has been shown to provide, sometimes the speculators drive prices down very sharply in anticipation of commodity devaluation. No one ever seems to complain about that.

bornhuetter 14y ago
You're being very unspecific about who these "speculators" are, and lumping a huge group of people and companies into one bucket. Saying that the financial sector provides no benefits to society is ill-judged, but saying that everyone should be absolved of wrong-doing just because the sector as a whole provides some benefit is equally ill-judged.
- crusso 14y ago
  > You're being very unspecific about who these "speculators" are, and lumping a huge group of people and companies into one bucket. Generalizing the evil "speculators" without calling out specific sub-groups or behaviors was exactly what the OP did and why I was pointing out the reason we tolerate and encourage speculation in the first place. >but saying that everyone should be absolved of wrong-doing just because the sector as a whole provides some benefit is equally ill-judged. I certainly didn't say that or even mean to imply it if that's how you read it.
r00fus 14y ago
The major problem is the speculators risk OUR MONEY for THEIR PROFITS. If they win, they take their captured marbles home, if they lose, well, they were playing with other people's marbles. This privatization of profits and socialization of risk is what's at stake. If actual accountability (even if it's not entirely symmetrical) existed, I doubt anyone would care. Right now, it's heads==they win, tails==we lose. That's a fools game, and we're the fools.
- crusso 14y ago
  > The major problem is the speculators risk OUR MONEY for THEIR PROFITS. I spent some time doing futures trading a couple of years ago, so I was an evil "speculator". I could have sworn that the money that I lost when I placed a series of bad trades was my own. I really have to learn how to hedge my futures trades with options before I get back into it. :) > This privatization of profits and socialization of risk is what's at stake. I agree to the extent that the whole notion of "too big to fail" and government bailouts is socializing the losses. I would really prefer if we would let the free market work and allow the financial institutions that are that bad to just go out of business.

by crusso 14y ago

bornhuetter 14y ago

You're being very unspecific about who these "speculators" are, and lumping a huge group of people and companies into one bucket. Saying that the financial sector provides no benefits to society is ill-judged, but saying that everyone should be absolved of wrong-doing just because the sector as a whole provides some benefit is equally ill-judged.

crusso 14y ago
> You're being very unspecific about who these "speculators" are, and lumping a huge group of people and companies into one bucket. Generalizing the evil "speculators" without calling out specific sub-groups or behaviors was exactly what the OP did and why I was pointing out the reason we tolerate and encourage speculation in the first place. >but saying that everyone should be absolved of wrong-doing just because the sector as a whole provides some benefit is equally ill-judged. I certainly didn't say that or even mean to imply it if that's how you read it.

r00fus 14y ago

The major problem is the speculators risk OUR MONEY for THEIR PROFITS. If they win, they take their captured marbles home, if they lose, well, they were playing with other people's marbles. This privatization of profits and socialization of risk is what's at stake. If actual accountability (even if it's not entirely symmetrical) existed, I doubt anyone would care. Right now, it's heads==they win, tails==we lose. That's a fools game, and we're the fools.

crusso 14y ago
> The major problem is the speculators risk OUR MONEY for THEIR PROFITS. I spent some time doing futures trading a couple of years ago, so I was an evil "speculator". I could have sworn that the money that I lost when I placed a series of bad trades was my own. I really have to learn how to hedge my futures trades with options before I get back into it. :) > This privatization of profits and socialization of risk is what's at stake. I agree to the extent that the whole notion of "too big to fail" and government bailouts is socializing the losses. I would really prefer if we would let the free market work and allow the financial institutions that are that bad to just go out of business.