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This is the exact formulation of the argument before computers beat humans at chess, or drew pictures, or represented color correctly, or... Self driving cars w

by sqeaky 2y ago

This is the exact formulation of the argument before computers beat humans at chess, or drew pictures, or represented color correctly, or... Self driving cars will be solved. There is at least one general purpose computer that can solve it already (a human brain), so of a purpose built computer can also be made to solve it. In 10 (or 2 or 50 or X) years when Chevy, Ford, and others are rolling out cheap self driving this argument stops working. The important thing is that this argument stops working with no change in how hard C to Rust conversion is. We really should be looking at the specifics of both problems. What makes computer language translation hard? Why is driving hard? One needs to be correct while inferring intent and possibly reformulating code to meet new restrictions. The other needs to be able to make snap judgments and in realtime avoid hitting things even if it just means stopping to prefer safety over motion. One problem can be solved piecewise without significant regard to time and the other solved in realtime as it happens without producing unsafe output. These problems really aren't analogous. I think you picked self driving cars just because it is a big and only partially solved problem. One could just as easily pick a big solved problem or a big unstarted problem and formulate equally bad arguments. I am not saying this problem is easy, just that it seems solvable with sufficient effort.

mywittyname 2y ago
> These problems really aren't analogous. I'd put money on the solutions to said problems looking largely the same though - big ass machine learning models. My prediction is that a tool like copilot (but specialized to this domain) will do the bulk of source code conversions, with a really smart human coming behind to validate.
- fch42 2y ago
  With you, except for the conclusion "[ the tool ] will do the bulk of source code conversions, with a really smart human coming behind to validate". The director orders the use of the tool when the dev team got downsized (and the two most-seniors left for greener pastures just after that). Validation is in the "extensive" tests anyway, we have those, right, so the new intern shall have a look, make it all work (fudge the tests where possible and remove the persistently failing ones as they've probably been always broken). The salesman said it comes from the DOA or DOD or something. If the spooks can do it so can we.
lmm 2y ago
> This is the exact formulation of the argument before computers beat humans at chess, or drew pictures, or represented color correctly, or... Which are things that took 20 or 50 years longer than expected in some cases. > I think you picked self driving cars just because it is a big and only partially solved problem. One could just as easily pick a big solved problem or a big unstarted problem and formulate equally bad arguments. But C to Rust translation is a big and only partially solved problem.

by sqeaky 2y ago

mywittyname 2y ago

> These problems really aren't analogous. I'd put money on the solutions to said problems looking largely the same though - big ass machine learning models. My prediction is that a tool like copilot (but specialized to this domain) will do the bulk of source code conversions, with a really smart human coming behind to validate.

fch42 2y ago
With you, except for the conclusion "[ the tool ] will do the bulk of source code conversions, with a really smart human coming behind to validate". The director orders the use of the tool when the dev team got downsized (and the two most-seniors left for greener pastures just after that). Validation is in the "extensive" tests anyway, we have those, right, so the new intern shall have a look, make it all work (fudge the tests where possible and remove the persistently failing ones as they've probably been always broken). The salesman said it comes from the DOA or DOD or something. If the spooks can do it so can we.

lmm 2y ago

> This is the exact formulation of the argument before computers beat humans at chess, or drew pictures, or represented color correctly, or... Which are things that took 20 or 50 years longer than expected in some cases. > I think you picked self driving cars just because it is a big and only partially solved problem. One could just as easily pick a big solved problem or a big unstarted problem and formulate equally bad arguments. But C to Rust translation is a big and only partially solved problem.