4 ms·

> manipulative It's not manipulative to use techniques that increase the chances of your advice being heard and followed, it's just good communication.

Jensson 2y ago
Depends on your motives, people would absolutely call it manipulative if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself. Advice aren't always good for people.
- throwawayq3423 2y ago
  > if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself I guess I made an assumption that wasn't the case. Most people that have malign intentions aren't curious about these topics enough to discuss them openly. "persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well.
  - Delk 2y ago
    > "persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well. Persuasion can be questionable even if it's not malicious. People can persuade others for selfish reasons, or to push their own desires, without it necessarily making the other person worse. But few of us like the feeling of being persuaded for someone else's benefit regardless. Or, more relevantly in the context of advice, some people often like to give advice or push ideas that they themselves like, or with which they have good experiences, or which suit their thinking and personality. But the idea might be unsuited to the other person's situation, needs, desires or personality. Persuasion tactics or social tricks don't make that better, even if the motive isn't malicious.
    - throwawayq3423 2y ago
      A therapist needs to persuade a troubled person to change their behavior and mindset. I don't know why you keep focusing on the malign example, everything on earth has good and bad application.
lmm 2y ago
Yes it is. If you say something that is less true because it's more likely to be followed, that's very clearly manipulation.
- throwawayq3423 2y ago
  Why would I say something less true, why does your mind go there automatically?
  - lmm 2y ago
    > Why would I say something less true Presumably the thing that you would say if you weren't "using a technique" is the most true thing. > why does your mind go there automatically? Because people who say things like what you said are usually making excuses for lying.

Jensson 2y ago

Depends on your motives, people would absolutely call it manipulative if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself. Advice aren't always good for people.

throwawayq3423 2y ago
> if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself I guess I made an assumption that wasn't the case. Most people that have malign intentions aren't curious about these topics enough to discuss them openly. "persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well.
- Delk 2y ago
  > "persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well. Persuasion can be questionable even if it's not malicious. People can persuade others for selfish reasons, or to push their own desires, without it necessarily making the other person worse. But few of us like the feeling of being persuaded for someone else's benefit regardless. Or, more relevantly in the context of advice, some people often like to give advice or push ideas that they themselves like, or with which they have good experiences, or which suit their thinking and personality. But the idea might be unsuited to the other person's situation, needs, desires or personality. Persuasion tactics or social tricks don't make that better, even if the motive isn't malicious.
  - throwawayq3423 2y ago
    A therapist needs to persuade a troubled person to change their behavior and mindset. I don't know why you keep focusing on the malign example, everything on earth has good and bad application.

lmm 2y ago

Yes it is. If you say something that is less true because it's more likely to be followed, that's very clearly manipulation.

throwawayq3423 2y ago
Why would I say something less true, why does your mind go there automatically?
- lmm 2y ago
  > Why would I say something less true Presumably the thing that you would say if you weren't "using a technique" is the most true thing. > why does your mind go there automatically? Because people who say things like what you said are usually making excuses for lying.