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> So it seems to me that there’s a fundamental human trait (“what can I get away with” ??) that warrants thinking about as well. Idk, I suspect many "crimes" l

> So it seems to me that there’s a fundamental human trait (“what can I get away with” ??) that warrants thinking about as well. Idk, I suspect many "crimes" like jaywalking and speeding are more around, this rule errs too hard on safety, but I know I can do this safely, and if it's not safe enough I'll get to pay the consequences (fines, accidents, dying). That's nothing like violating the privacy of other people for profit and no real penalty (actual jailtime for those involved, not just a --fine-- tax on the profits)

petsfed 2y ago
> this rule errs too hard on safety, but I know I can do this safely, and if it's not safe enough I'll get to pay the consequences (fines, accidents, dying) The analogy here is that people, like corporations, are frequently very bad at assessing where the appropriate line for safety actually is, doubly so when the appropriate line personally inconveniences them. Some rules are perhaps too stringent, but frequently, the guidelines are akin to safe working loads, with safety margins built in, rather than do-not-exceed limits. Anyone who has to understand either of those things will tell you that if your operational envelope exceeds the safe working limit, you will eventually fail, catastrophically. It's certainly true that traffic fines are not similar to corporate fines in the sense that you don't lose your chemical manufacturing license after committing 15 points worth of chemical safety infractions, but for other kinds of infractions, the fine for people is also frequently just part of the cost of doing the thing. All of that said, I 100% agree that company leadership should see jail time for a variety of infractions, with a sort of inverted burden of proof as it pertains to determining who is at fault in an offending organization: you can only pass the buck down as far as the highest person who you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt deliberately hid information from those above them.

petsfed 2y ago

> this rule errs too hard on safety, but I know I can do this safely, and if it's not safe enough I'll get to pay the consequences (fines, accidents, dying) The analogy here is that people, like corporations, are frequently very bad at assessing where the appropriate line for safety actually is, doubly so when the appropriate line personally inconveniences them. Some rules are perhaps too stringent, but frequently, the guidelines are akin to safe working loads, with safety margins built in, rather than do-not-exceed limits. Anyone who has to understand either of those things will tell you that if your operational envelope exceeds the safe working limit, you will eventually fail, catastrophically. It's certainly true that traffic fines are not similar to corporate fines in the sense that you don't lose your chemical manufacturing license after committing 15 points worth of chemical safety infractions, but for other kinds of infractions, the fine for people is also frequently just part of the cost of doing the thing. All of that said, I 100% agree that company leadership should see jail time for a variety of infractions, with a sort of inverted burden of proof as it pertains to determining who is at fault in an offending organization: you can only pass the buck down as far as the highest person who you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt deliberately hid information from those above them.