4 ms·

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

• radus 2y ago
  I guess then you've got to abstract one level further and formulate your advice as an allegory.
• lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  > just trying to tell them what to do If they disregard your advice and you don't criticize them for it, you are absolutely not telling them what to do. For what it's worth.
• throwawayq3423 2y ago
  > manipulative It's not manipulative to use techniques that increase the chances of your advice being heard and followed, it's just good communication.
  • Jensson 2y ago
    Depends on your motives, people would absolutely call it manipulative if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself. Advice aren't always good for people.
    • throwawayq3423 2y ago
      > if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself I guess I made an assumption that wasn't the case. Most people that have malign intentions aren't curious about these topics enough to discuss them openly. "persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well.
      • Delk 2y ago
        > "persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well. Persuasion can be questionable even if it's not malicious. People can persuade others for selfish reasons, or to push their own desires, without it necessarily making the other person worse. But few of us like the feeling of being persuaded for someone else's benefit regardless. Or, more relevantly in the context of advice, some people often like to give advice or push ideas that they themselves like, or with which they have good experiences, or which suit their thinking and personality. But the idea might be unsuited to the other person's situation, needs, desires or personality. Persuasion tactics or social tricks don't make that better, even if the motive isn't malicious.
        • throwawayq3423 2y ago
          A therapist needs to persuade a troubled person to change their behavior and mindset. I don't know why you keep focusing on the malign example, everything on earth has good and bad application.
  • lmm 2y ago
    Yes it is. If you say something that is less true because it's more likely to be followed, that's very clearly manipulation.
    • throwawayq3423 2y ago
      Why would I say something less true, why does your mind go there automatically?
      • lmm 2y ago
        > Why would I say something less true Presumably the thing that you would say if you weren't "using a technique" is the most true thing. > why does your mind go there automatically? Because people who say things like what you said are usually making excuses for lying.
• intended 2y ago
  I think you have a lot to unpack here, for yourself. You seem to have set up two purposes in conflict with each other. On one hand you are telling people what to do, nicely. On the other, you recognize the intent of such a statement is to share an experience to see if it fits their situation. The only person who can know the difference, most of the time, is you. After all, If your statement is helpful, people will use it. So is it an issue of you being insincere ? Or is it an issue if you being confused if you are being helpful but in reality coercive ? If it’s insincerity, then do what makes you happier with your statements. If it’s coercive, then give people a choice - let them know your concerns, ensure that they have all the information to own the choice.
• bawolff 2y ago
  There is a big difference between giving advice and giving orders. If you are (e.g.) someone's manager, and you need them to do X, then you should say that. There is nothing worse than being unsure if something is a suggestion or a mandatory "suggestion".
  • ryanmcbride 2y ago
    Absolutely, advice isn't the same as instruction. Totally different set of rules.
• watwut 2y ago
  It is not manipulative if you actually mean it that way. People get insulted over others not taking their advice, reacting with "I told you so" or repeating it and trying to force others. Meanwhile, those who are just saying what they would do are not invested into what other person will do, they state what they would do and move on. It is not just phrasing, it is also mindset that shows up in your other interactions.
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