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It’s weird how hacky macOS feels compared to Linux, where you can get a good idea on how things works due to openness and Windows, due to the good documentation

by a1o 2y ago

It’s weird how hacky macOS feels compared to Linux, where you can get a good idea on how things works due to openness and Windows, due to the good documentation Microsoft offers. In macOS it always feels like you have to be grateful about whatever is allowed and depend on mysterious closed source software.

frou_dh 2y ago
If you've been a techy Mac user and don't know about Automator then it's a you problem. It was evangelised quite heavily and has been in its final form for a long time. These are its twilight years as the new-ish Shortcuts system takes over.
- mediumsmart 2y ago
  exactly. https://macosxautomation.com https://macosxautomation.com thank you Sal Soghoian
- msephton 2y ago
  I think it's worth celebrating users discovering new things. We were all that user at one time.
  - frou_dh 2y ago
    On second thoughts, I think the person I replied to was perhaps talking specifically about the (in)ability to put things at the root of the menu. So I apologise if that was the case.
nerdjon 2y ago
I am curious what about this you consider hacky? Everything except for the last part of this is native functionality built into Mac. Automator is an app every Mac ships with and it natively has the ability to put things in your Quick Actions, make folder actions, etc. The only real hacky part of this is that it is stuck within the "Quick Actions" menu instead of just being part of the dropdown and this app addresses that. But thats a fairly small part of this implementation.
- therein 2y ago
  That's exactly what he is referring to. In Windows, you'd either have something documenting that API (to add it in the context menu, not under Quick Actions), or if it is undocumented, you'd still have an idea where to look for it. There would be some sort of API, you'd LoadLibrary, find the symbol, call it with some arguments. Even undocumented, you can kind of rely that it will be there later in some shape or form. In MacOS, it is really convoluted. Do I dynamically load some bundle? What bundle? Likely they'll put it somewhere else sometime soon. Of course in principle, there is some API but the way that Apple treats them is very different. For example, I want to get how many fingers are touching the trackpad right now and the current position of these touches. There are all sorts of things like PinchControllers that need to be initialized and they emit events etc., but nothing to give you the current state of affairs or exactly what you want.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    I am confused, I feel like we are talking about different things. If you look at the page, the difference between the official implementation and this app is that instead of it being under "Quick Actions" in your context menu, it is just right there. It isnt like Apple doesn't give you a way to put something in your context menu with Automator, they just put it inside Quick Actions. You don't even need to use Automator, just right click in finder, go to quick actions and click customize. Would it be great if I didnt need it to be stuck under Quick Actions, I mean sure. But except for one minor change (making something 1 less level deep in a menu) this entire workflow is possible without any third party app or "hacks". Edit: If we want to talk about API's and other things sure. But given the context of this article, I was assuming that the OP was talking about the functionality presented in this article which most of the implementation is Apple provided tooling.
  - dlivingston 2y ago
    > it is undocumented, you'd still have an idea where to look for it. There would be some sort of API, you'd LoadLibrary, find the symbol, call it with some arguments. Even undocumented, you can kind of rely that it will be there later in some shape or form. Is using undocumented APIs in Windows common? This sets off my Spidey-sense hard.
fortran77 2y ago
I'm amazed at how hard it is to write a native desktop app in MacOS! Macs didn't originally have a two-button mouse, so it could be context menus are "hacky" because of their late arrival.

by a1o 2y ago

frou_dh 2y ago

If you've been a techy Mac user and don't know about Automator then it's a you problem. It was evangelised quite heavily and has been in its final form for a long time. These are its twilight years as the new-ish Shortcuts system takes over.

mediumsmart 2y ago
exactly. https://macosxautomation.com https://macosxautomation.com thank you Sal Soghoian
msephton 2y ago
I think it's worth celebrating users discovering new things. We were all that user at one time.
- frou_dh 2y ago
  On second thoughts, I think the person I replied to was perhaps talking specifically about the (in)ability to put things at the root of the menu. So I apologise if that was the case.

nerdjon 2y ago

I am curious what about this you consider hacky? Everything except for the last part of this is native functionality built into Mac. Automator is an app every Mac ships with and it natively has the ability to put things in your Quick Actions, make folder actions, etc. The only real hacky part of this is that it is stuck within the "Quick Actions" menu instead of just being part of the dropdown and this app addresses that. But thats a fairly small part of this implementation.

therein 2y ago
That's exactly what he is referring to. In Windows, you'd either have something documenting that API (to add it in the context menu, not under Quick Actions), or if it is undocumented, you'd still have an idea where to look for it. There would be some sort of API, you'd LoadLibrary, find the symbol, call it with some arguments. Even undocumented, you can kind of rely that it will be there later in some shape or form. In MacOS, it is really convoluted. Do I dynamically load some bundle? What bundle? Likely they'll put it somewhere else sometime soon. Of course in principle, there is some API but the way that Apple treats them is very different. For example, I want to get how many fingers are touching the trackpad right now and the current position of these touches. There are all sorts of things like PinchControllers that need to be initialized and they emit events etc., but nothing to give you the current state of affairs or exactly what you want.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  I am confused, I feel like we are talking about different things. If you look at the page, the difference between the official implementation and this app is that instead of it being under "Quick Actions" in your context menu, it is just right there. It isnt like Apple doesn't give you a way to put something in your context menu with Automator, they just put it inside Quick Actions. You don't even need to use Automator, just right click in finder, go to quick actions and click customize. Would it be great if I didnt need it to be stuck under Quick Actions, I mean sure. But except for one minor change (making something 1 less level deep in a menu) this entire workflow is possible without any third party app or "hacks". Edit: If we want to talk about API's and other things sure. But given the context of this article, I was assuming that the OP was talking about the functionality presented in this article which most of the implementation is Apple provided tooling.
- dlivingston 2y ago
  > it is undocumented, you'd still have an idea where to look for it. There would be some sort of API, you'd LoadLibrary, find the symbol, call it with some arguments. Even undocumented, you can kind of rely that it will be there later in some shape or form. Is using undocumented APIs in Windows common? This sets off my Spidey-sense hard.

fortran77 2y ago

I'm amazed at how hard it is to write a native desktop app in MacOS! Macs didn't originally have a two-button mouse, so it could be context menus are "hacky" because of their late arrival.