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Cars are not alive, let alone sentient, so it is no more possible to punish them than it is a rock or a pane of glass. Perhaps you do believe cars are sentient

Cars are not alive, let alone sentient, so it is no more possible to punish them than it is a rock or a pane of glass. Perhaps you do believe cars are sentient and capable of receiving punishment. But if not, you might have been using “cars” as a de-personifying shorthand for “drivers”. In which case, yes, drivers should be punished — not for merely existing, no, but for the harm they have caused to non-drivers. From traffic fatalities to car-only infrastructure, drivers and their insistence on cars have been to the detriment of the rest of us.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
you want to punish all drivers because some were dumb and reckless? Seems excessive. I'd start with making sure tests are actually tests and not formalities. Then I'd also expand that to needing to re-test every X years, so old people who can barely see or have poor motor control aren't still driving.
- bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
  That's the thing — a driver doesn't have to be dumb or reckless to harm those around them. Merely insisting that society provide space for you to drive and park your car, not to mention all the harms that driving itself causes (CO2, particulate matter, other pollution, noise, ...), is a serious harm inflicted by all drivers on those around them.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    This makes an assumption that everyone is strapped for space. It depends on the geography at the end of the day. >not to mention all the harms that driving itself causes (CO2, particulate matter, other pollution, noise, ...), I fail to see how humans don't do any of these harms on foot. The move towards electric cars should put each other on rough parity.
    - TomK32 2y ago
      Electric cars are still cars that need a lot of space in our cities and run over pedestrians. It's rather sad that the move to electric cars wasn't taken as an opportunity towards smaller cars.
      - rangestransform 2y ago
        in general, you can't convince someone to do the more pro-social action by making their lives worse, you have to meet them where they're at and provide either an upgrade or a side-grade.
- TomK32 2y ago
  Did you know that of the car drivers & passengers killed each year, about 25% (and the difference between the US, UK or EU is pretty small here) didn't put on a seat-belt before their last drive? Of course this number will eventually go down, but it seems there's a lot of dumb drivers out there.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

you want to punish all drivers because some were dumb and reckless? Seems excessive. I'd start with making sure tests are actually tests and not formalities. Then I'd also expand that to needing to re-test every X years, so old people who can barely see or have poor motor control aren't still driving.

bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
That's the thing — a driver doesn't have to be dumb or reckless to harm those around them. Merely insisting that society provide space for you to drive and park your car, not to mention all the harms that driving itself causes (CO2, particulate matter, other pollution, noise, ...), is a serious harm inflicted by all drivers on those around them.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  This makes an assumption that everyone is strapped for space. It depends on the geography at the end of the day. >not to mention all the harms that driving itself causes (CO2, particulate matter, other pollution, noise, ...), I fail to see how humans don't do any of these harms on foot. The move towards electric cars should put each other on rough parity.
  - TomK32 2y ago
    Electric cars are still cars that need a lot of space in our cities and run over pedestrians. It's rather sad that the move to electric cars wasn't taken as an opportunity towards smaller cars.
    - rangestransform 2y ago
      in general, you can't convince someone to do the more pro-social action by making their lives worse, you have to meet them where they're at and provide either an upgrade or a side-grade.
TomK32 2y ago
Did you know that of the car drivers & passengers killed each year, about 25% (and the difference between the US, UK or EU is pretty small here) didn't put on a seat-belt before their last drive? Of course this number will eventually go down, but it seems there's a lot of dumb drivers out there.