4 ms·

Wow, that actually makes me want to look into zig a lot more. so many projects, rust included, get bogged down in design by committee and half baked decisions t

Wow, that actually makes me want to look into zig a lot more. so many projects, rust included, get bogged down in design by committee and half baked decisions that please no one.

bunderbunder 2y ago
Agreed. Andrew Kelley's ability to have, communicate and maintain a clear and consistent vision is one of the most refreshing things about Zig. I don't actually use it, but this might actually be the main thing attracting me to it. Plenty has already been said about design-by-committee and relying overmuch on user feedback, but one thing that doesn't get mentioned as often is that this approach tends to transform additive bias[1] from a cognitive bias into an iron law. Once you let that happen, you're on a relatively short and slippery slope to having a kitchen sink language. And one refreshing thing about Zig is that's it's clearly working very hard at not becoming a kitchen sink language. I'm not sure I can say the same about most other newer systems programming languages. That doesn't mean having a BDFL is all kittens and rainbows, and I'm sure Andrew has made plenty of mistakes. But I've also never seen any indication that he's acted out of anything other than good faith. That last paragraph is possibly the closest I've ever seen to him saying something arrogant, and I see it as the exception that proves the rule. Finding such a tactful way to remind people that this is a BDFL project and he's the BDFL could not have been easy, and I imagine he put a lot of care into crafting that paragraph. 1: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/our-brain-typically-overlooks-this-brilliant-problem-solving-strategy/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/our-brain-typical...
nkozyra 2y ago
I agree that letting the community completely dictate direction is a bad idea, but so too is being so dogmatic and idealist that you ignore the feedback. Rust definitely swayed more to the former than I'd have liked, but you also have Go as a counterexample where generics were dismissed for a decade+ in response to user feedback and then kind of :shrug: ok fine we'll add generics.

Wow, that actually makes me want to look into zig a lot more. so many projects, rust included, get bogged down in design by committee and half baked decisions that please no one.

bunderbunder 2y ago

Agreed. Andrew Kelley's ability to have, communicate and maintain a clear and consistent vision is one of the most refreshing things about Zig. I don't actually use it, but this might actually be the main thing attracting me to it. Plenty has already been said about design-by-committee and relying overmuch on user feedback, but one thing that doesn't get mentioned as often is that this approach tends to transform additive bias[1] from a cognitive bias into an iron law. Once you let that happen, you're on a relatively short and slippery slope to having a kitchen sink language. And one refreshing thing about Zig is that's it's clearly working very hard at not becoming a kitchen sink language. I'm not sure I can say the same about most other newer systems programming languages. That doesn't mean having a BDFL is all kittens and rainbows, and I'm sure Andrew has made plenty of mistakes. But I've also never seen any indication that he's acted out of anything other than good faith. That last paragraph is possibly the closest I've ever seen to him saying something arrogant, and I see it as the exception that proves the rule. Finding such a tactful way to remind people that this is a BDFL project and he's the BDFL could not have been easy, and I imagine he put a lot of care into crafting that paragraph. 1: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/our-brain-typically-overlooks-this-brilliant-problem-solving-strategy/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/our-brain-typical...

nkozyra 2y ago

I agree that letting the community completely dictate direction is a bad idea, but so too is being so dogmatic and idealist that you ignore the feedback. Rust definitely swayed more to the former than I'd have liked, but you also have Go as a counterexample where generics were dismissed for a decade+ in response to user feedback and then kind of :shrug: ok fine we'll add generics.