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You are still clinging to the same misconception. I want to measure the CLR, not the frontend output. The CLR is by definition a "Common Language Runtime", i.e.
by Rochus 2y ago
You are still clinging to the same misconception. I want to measure the CLR, not the frontend output. The CLR is by definition a "Common Language Runtime", i.e. it makes the promise to execute applications written in multiple high-level languages without the requirement that these applications have to take into consideration the unique characteristics of the specific CLR or environment. There is no requirement in ISO 23271 whatsoever that the CIL fed to the CLR must meet other requirements than the ones stated in the standard. There is especially no requirement in the standard that the bytecode fed into the CLR must be optimized or meet certain patterns so that loops are recognized. My code is perfectly compliant with the standard.
The CLR is essentially a JIT processing a well-defined intermediate language. A JIT is all about optimization. In contrast to a static compiler, a JIT can also consider specific system and runtime information for this purpose. Mono is very good in both static and dynamic optimizations, and it is especially good in handling bytecode from other than the included C# compiler. Microsoft, for some reason, seems to have decided to move a lot of optimizations to their new C# compiler infrastructure, which also heavily uses inside knowledge of the CoreCLR, and generates patterns which the latter is looking for (e.g. for loop detection and the like). It is therefore not surprising if code compiled with Microsoft's own C# compiler runs faster on the CoreCLR than other code.
However, I am only interested in the original purpose of the CLR. I don't want to have to use .NET or Microsoft's compiler framework in order for the CLR to achieve good performance. That is why I deliberately use unoptimized code for the performance measurements, which in particular does not take into account any of the rules that Microsoft has introduced outside of the above-mentioned standard.
Your arguments would be relevant if different C# compilers + CLR were to be compared with each other, or to my Oberon+ compiler. That is a different use case. As a language developer and not equipped with the resources of Microsoft or the CoreCLR team, I have been able to save a lot of effort by profiting of the CLR standard and of Mono in particular, as forseen by the original purpose of the CLI/CLR. My measurements and claims represent this original purpose and use case.
If I had supplied highly optimized bytecode instead, I would - besides my much larger effort - to a large extent be measuring the compiler frontend (or its consideration of the many, sparsely documented rules that the bytecode must take into account beyond the standard in order for CoreCLR to run optimally), not the CLR.
That said, if you want to immortalize yourself in the Are-we-fast-yet community, you could contribute a C# implementation of the benchmark suite. This would be a good way to measure the influence of the frontend on CLR performance, which would also be very interesting.
- neonsunset 2y agoI won't - already spent enough time on this and don't have more. My points were only that repurposing C emitter to target C# as well, with the same structs/pointers/memory management is likely both easier and bound to produce massively faster performing solution than something that has deliberately compiler-unfriendly IL. But even if you target CIL, intentionally using incorrect structures or the ones that are different to C back-end, especially around string comparisons, sounds like ignoring what the platform can offer. You can keep discounting my suggestions as something that is outside of ECMA spec and to be ignored, which it isn't. At least the cases like this one are few and far between and serious projects like IronPython3, ClojureCLR or Godot use appropriate runtime.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]