3 ms·

It's arguably also a fault of MS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41096344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41096344

vel0city 2y ago
> Windows is unsuitable precisely because it can be brought down by third party updates If I run bullshit on a Linux or MacOS box it can also be unstable and brought to its knees. Or is that poster really trying to argue there's no way you can get a Linux box to lock up?
- fsflover 2y ago
  Key quote from my link: > Third party vendors are forced into writing unsafe kernel drivers because Microsoft does not provide sufficient user mode APIs. AFAIK it's different on Linux, and the reliability is higher. Is this not the case?
  - vel0city 2y ago
    https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockylinux-after-9-4-upgrade/14041 https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockyli... https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html You can install buggy kernel modules in Linux as well. I can't even count how many times an apt upgrade/yum update made my system unbootable when using nvidia GPU drivers. And besides, if you're really wanting that AV system to deeply know about everything the operating system is doing and hook into tons of syscalls, you pretty much can't be running exclusively in usermode. If someone compromised the root of the system you then can't trust the info the kernel is giving your usermode application. eBPF isn't usermode. And in the end, the poster literally said Windows is unsuitable because third party updates can kill it. That was the key takeaway from their post. Well, third party updates can kill Linux, it can kill MacOS, it can kill darn near everything.
bruce511 2y ago
It's an argument. I'm not sure it's a _good_ argument, but hey it's an argument.

vel0city 2y ago

> Windows is unsuitable precisely because it can be brought down by third party updates If I run bullshit on a Linux or MacOS box it can also be unstable and brought to its knees. Or is that poster really trying to argue there's no way you can get a Linux box to lock up?

fsflover 2y ago
Key quote from my link: > Third party vendors are forced into writing unsafe kernel drivers because Microsoft does not provide sufficient user mode APIs. AFAIK it's different on Linux, and the reliability is higher. Is this not the case?
- vel0city 2y ago
  https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockylinux-after-9-4-upgrade/14041 https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockyli... https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html You can install buggy kernel modules in Linux as well. I can't even count how many times an apt upgrade/yum update made my system unbootable when using nvidia GPU drivers. And besides, if you're really wanting that AV system to deeply know about everything the operating system is doing and hook into tons of syscalls, you pretty much can't be running exclusively in usermode. If someone compromised the root of the system you then can't trust the info the kernel is giving your usermode application. eBPF isn't usermode. And in the end, the poster literally said Windows is unsuitable because third party updates can kill it. That was the key takeaway from their post. Well, third party updates can kill Linux, it can kill MacOS, it can kill darn near everything.

bruce511 2y ago

It's an argument. I'm not sure it's a _good_ argument, but hey it's an argument.