3 ms·

They still have over 100,000 employees. And they're building new factories in Asia. And their Lumia phones are best sellers in several countries. I don't thin

by aik 14y ago

They still have over 100,000 employees. And they're building new factories in Asia. And their Lumia phones are best sellers in several countries. I don't think they're going anywhere yet. Edit: Could you explain why they should commit suicide? Are you saying the executive board has failed? I think it's much too early to tell.

BitMastro 14y ago
It's still a whopping 10%
gahahaha 14y ago
Can anybody say that the executive board hasn't failed? I don't see how Nokia could have fumbled the ball more totally than they have. The Stock price: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1339515960000&chddm=446054&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=INDEXSP:.INX&cmptdms=0&q=NYSE:NOK&ntsp=0 https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1...
- aik 14y ago
  They're making a long term investment with Windows Phone (WP) -- with the current plan they probably won't reach profitability for another several quarters. If the plan succeeds, Nokia will be profitable again when the point comes where WP gains a significant enough marketshare where Nokia is able to completely replace the drop in Symbian sales with WP phones (and their new cheap feature phones). If you follow the path of no-Elop, Nokia would still be investing in Symbian and Meego. Are you claiming the stock would've been better if following that path? It's very unlikely, especially if you look at the steep drop in Symbian phone sales over the past few quarters.
  - SlipperySlope 14y ago
    "with the current plan they probably won't reach profitability for another several quarters." ... or Windows Phone could sell so poorly that they never become profitable, and run out of cash. And prove to every other manufacturer that Microsoft and Windows Phone are poison in the smartphone/carrier marketplace.
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      They won't go before, "in a bold move to save the company", its most valuable IP is sold to their strategic partner Microsoft. Who will then promptly proceed to troll each and every Android phone manufacturer to either have a WP7 lineup or pay an even hefty patent ext^H^H^Hlicensing fee.
  - pessimizer 14y ago
    The drop in Symbian sales came after it was announced to be a dead platform. Without that announcement, no steep drop. And from all indications, the Meego N9 would have (or did according to some) outsold the Lumia 800 if it had been generally released. Nokia was stagnating before, but not drowning. The major problem that they had was management of their software projects, which were becoming a tangled mess of unfixed bugs and missed dates. Instead of buying a new car, they just needed a new transmission.
    - aik 14y ago
      1. From my understanding all reports were that Symbian had just become too heavy to maintain and improve. Thus not worth it. 2. I don't think it matters too much if Meego would have outsold Lumia 800. Again, it's not about selling individual phones in the short term, but it's about the ecosystem. Meego may have been OK in the short term, but I believe unless it was massively better than iOS/Andriod (which to me it seemed like a poor copy in many respects), and it would be able to get the app count, I do believe it would have died before long. I believe Windows Phone is a great OS already, superior in many ways to iOS/Android, and has great potential still. In addition, I can guarantee that Microsoft has 10x the capability of Nokia to rally up developers to develop apps. And lastly, MS has massive additional weight to ensure it's a success -- to continually pump the money until it reaches success. Although Nokia isn't the only maker of WP phones, MS has done a lot to give Nokia the advantage. I agree we're yet to see if it pays off though. I'm hopeful.
      - pessimizer 14y ago
        Symbian was definitely a creaky mess, and definitely would have to be replaced by something in the medium term, but people liked it a lot, and with the Qt ecosystem being ported to both Symbian and Meego, they were going to be able to use the same apps (depending on the power of the phone, of course.) It wasn't in any way a copy of iOS or Android. It was a full multitasking Linux desktop that you could treat as a smartphone, and had (and has) a small, rabid developer community. Of course, the Meego move was a bit silly, but I think they were using it as an excuse to reboot the GUI systems, of which there were three, which is two too many. There are still new apps being created for Maemo (and Meego/Harmattan was just tarted up Maemo) all of the time. What was lacking was a mass market phone that would encourage more commercial developers to target the platform. The N900 was a phone for technophile nerds like myself, but all of the glowing reviews of the phone accidentally made the N9 a massively anticipated phone, because it had N900 cred, yet looked pretty (unlike my beloved N900 brick.) They had to dump it outside of major markets in order to avoid comparisons of it and the Lumia, because people wanted and liked it so much. Me, I like a keyboard.
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > when the point comes where WP gains a significant enough marketshare where Nokia is able to completely replace the drop in Symbian sales with WP phones (and their new cheap feature phones). Does anyone outside Redmond really believe this? While I agree pre-Elop Nokia was in bad shape regarding their software projects, betting the company on WP7, a phone OS that was, at the time, demonstrably behind the competition in both features and sales despite the fact it was being sold by other manufacturers, was idiotic beyond reason. The only company that benefited from that announcement was Microsoft. As for Lumia sales volume, I have to ask: how profitable those phones are? Or is Nokia self immolating to please its masters in Redmond?

by aik 14y ago

BitMastro 14y ago

It's still a whopping 10%

gahahaha 14y ago

Can anybody say that the executive board hasn't failed? I don't see how Nokia could have fumbled the ball more totally than they have. The Stock price: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1339515960000&chddm=446054&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=INDEXSP:.INX&cmptdms=0&q=NYSE:NOK&ntsp=0 https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1...

aik 14y ago
They're making a long term investment with Windows Phone (WP) -- with the current plan they probably won't reach profitability for another several quarters. If the plan succeeds, Nokia will be profitable again when the point comes where WP gains a significant enough marketshare where Nokia is able to completely replace the drop in Symbian sales with WP phones (and their new cheap feature phones). If you follow the path of no-Elop, Nokia would still be investing in Symbian and Meego. Are you claiming the stock would've been better if following that path? It's very unlikely, especially if you look at the steep drop in Symbian phone sales over the past few quarters.
- SlipperySlope 14y ago
  "with the current plan they probably won't reach profitability for another several quarters." ... or Windows Phone could sell so poorly that they never become profitable, and run out of cash. And prove to every other manufacturer that Microsoft and Windows Phone are poison in the smartphone/carrier marketplace.
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    They won't go before, "in a bold move to save the company", its most valuable IP is sold to their strategic partner Microsoft. Who will then promptly proceed to troll each and every Android phone manufacturer to either have a WP7 lineup or pay an even hefty patent ext^H^H^Hlicensing fee.
- pessimizer 14y ago
  The drop in Symbian sales came after it was announced to be a dead platform. Without that announcement, no steep drop. And from all indications, the Meego N9 would have (or did according to some) outsold the Lumia 800 if it had been generally released. Nokia was stagnating before, but not drowning. The major problem that they had was management of their software projects, which were becoming a tangled mess of unfixed bugs and missed dates. Instead of buying a new car, they just needed a new transmission.
  - aik 14y ago
    1. From my understanding all reports were that Symbian had just become too heavy to maintain and improve. Thus not worth it. 2. I don't think it matters too much if Meego would have outsold Lumia 800. Again, it's not about selling individual phones in the short term, but it's about the ecosystem. Meego may have been OK in the short term, but I believe unless it was massively better than iOS/Andriod (which to me it seemed like a poor copy in many respects), and it would be able to get the app count, I do believe it would have died before long. I believe Windows Phone is a great OS already, superior in many ways to iOS/Android, and has great potential still. In addition, I can guarantee that Microsoft has 10x the capability of Nokia to rally up developers to develop apps. And lastly, MS has massive additional weight to ensure it's a success -- to continually pump the money until it reaches success. Although Nokia isn't the only maker of WP phones, MS has done a lot to give Nokia the advantage. I agree we're yet to see if it pays off though. I'm hopeful.
    - pessimizer 14y ago
      Symbian was definitely a creaky mess, and definitely would have to be replaced by something in the medium term, but people liked it a lot, and with the Qt ecosystem being ported to both Symbian and Meego, they were going to be able to use the same apps (depending on the power of the phone, of course.) It wasn't in any way a copy of iOS or Android. It was a full multitasking Linux desktop that you could treat as a smartphone, and had (and has) a small, rabid developer community. Of course, the Meego move was a bit silly, but I think they were using it as an excuse to reboot the GUI systems, of which there were three, which is two too many. There are still new apps being created for Maemo (and Meego/Harmattan was just tarted up Maemo) all of the time. What was lacking was a mass market phone that would encourage more commercial developers to target the platform. The N900 was a phone for technophile nerds like myself, but all of the glowing reviews of the phone accidentally made the N9 a massively anticipated phone, because it had N900 cred, yet looked pretty (unlike my beloved N900 brick.) They had to dump it outside of major markets in order to avoid comparisons of it and the Lumia, because people wanted and liked it so much. Me, I like a keyboard.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > when the point comes where WP gains a significant enough marketshare where Nokia is able to completely replace the drop in Symbian sales with WP phones (and their new cheap feature phones). Does anyone outside Redmond really believe this? While I agree pre-Elop Nokia was in bad shape regarding their software projects, betting the company on WP7, a phone OS that was, at the time, demonstrably behind the competition in both features and sales despite the fact it was being sold by other manufacturers, was idiotic beyond reason. The only company that benefited from that announcement was Microsoft. As for Lumia sales volume, I have to ask: how profitable those phones are? Or is Nokia self immolating to please its masters in Redmond?