5 ms·

I am all for walkable neighbourhoods, places where people feel welcome on the streets. Yet there is also the question of: how do we achieve that goal? As the ar

by II2II 2y ago

I am all for walkable neighbourhoods, places where people feel welcome on the streets. Yet there is also the question of: how do we achieve that goal? As the article mentions, there is more to it than eliminating the car. Social structures must be rebuilt. There need to be places where children can seek safety (a friend's house, a store). Adults need to keep an eye on children, even if they are unfamiliar children, to protect them from harm. It's not just the "stranger danger" category that matters here. Kids can be miscreants too. As much as I agree with people talk about children's lives being too structured, I also fear that too many people take things to the opposite extreme. Structure provides learning opportunities for children. They learn new games. They learn how to interact socially. Sure, that can be done without structure. Sometimes with very undesirable outcomes. Reigning in cars and structure may provide room for social change, but they are not enough on their own. We also need a framework to facilitate that social change, rather than hoping it will magically happen.

anal_reactor 2y ago
> Social structures must be rebuilt Cutting off from everyone around you and living in your own bubble is convenient. I lived in a few places, and in none of them did I have any idea who my neighbors were, simply because living this way was always easier. In order to rebuild social structures you'd need to convince people that hanging out with your neighbors is net positive, not net cost.
resoluteteeth 2y ago
> I am all for walkable neighbourhoods, places where people feel welcome on the streets. Yet there is also the question of: how do we achieve that goal? As the article mentions, there is more to it than eliminating the car. Social structures must be rebuilt. There need to be places where children can seek safety (a friend's house, a store). Adults need to keep an eye on children, even if they are unfamiliar children, to protect them from harm. It's not just the "stranger danger" category that matters here. Kids can be miscreants too. A few decades ago, when it was normal for kids to play in the residential streets where they lived, those streets actually were places that were safe for kids, not just in terms of cars, but in the other ways you are describing, because there were generally enough people outside to keep them safe. Additionally, creating a situation where people's kids are playing with other kids on the same street actually does help create these "social structures". (The kids' parents will typically end up getting to know the other kids' parents in a way that might not happen if the kids are always inside except when they're being driven around in cars.) So I think just trying to do traffic calming on residential streets and make them safe for kids to play would actually help resolve these other problems, and resolving them shouldn't be seen as a precondition for trying to address the car aspect of making streets safe for kids to play in.

by II2II 2y ago

anal_reactor 2y ago

> Social structures must be rebuilt Cutting off from everyone around you and living in your own bubble is convenient. I lived in a few places, and in none of them did I have any idea who my neighbors were, simply because living this way was always easier. In order to rebuild social structures you'd need to convince people that hanging out with your neighbors is net positive, not net cost.

resoluteteeth 2y ago

> I am all for walkable neighbourhoods, places where people feel welcome on the streets. Yet there is also the question of: how do we achieve that goal? As the article mentions, there is more to it than eliminating the car. Social structures must be rebuilt. There need to be places where children can seek safety (a friend's house, a store). Adults need to keep an eye on children, even if they are unfamiliar children, to protect them from harm. It's not just the "stranger danger" category that matters here. Kids can be miscreants too. A few decades ago, when it was normal for kids to play in the residential streets where they lived, those streets actually were places that were safe for kids, not just in terms of cars, but in the other ways you are describing, because there were generally enough people outside to keep them safe. Additionally, creating a situation where people's kids are playing with other kids on the same street actually does help create these "social structures". (The kids' parents will typically end up getting to know the other kids' parents in a way that might not happen if the kids are always inside except when they're being driven around in cars.) So I think just trying to do traffic calming on residential streets and make them safe for kids to play would actually help resolve these other problems, and resolving them shouldn't be seen as a precondition for trying to address the car aspect of making streets safe for kids to play in.