5 ms·

With a screen that looks the same on or off, I'm looking forward to always-on ads.

shiroiushi 2y ago
I'm looking forward to reading other HN users complaining about always-on ads that are easily blocked with an ad-blocker, and then when I ask them why they don't use an ad-blocker, they give me a lecture about how it's evil and immoral to block ads.
- TheRealPomax 2y ago
  You'll have to explain how you installed an ad-blocker on your TV (not "in the browser that you're using because you're using this as a computer monitor", on the actual TV, being used as a modern smart TV)
  - jen20 2y ago
    So far a pi-hole has been sufficient.
    - darkwater 2y ago
      Wait until mandatory DNS over HTTPS with certificate pinning, embedded in the browser view is a thing everywhere. At least in the Google world, we are in a slowly boiled frog situation.
      - jen20 2y ago
        The thing I’m most worried about is manufacturers embedding a SIM to bypass my network. My current approach is no network on the vast majority of TVs (Samsung) and an Apple TV as the only connected device.
        ssl-3 2y ago
        Services like Amazon Sidewalk exist today, whereby: Your neighbor's Amazon Echo speaker can provide a slice of connectivity to things like television.
        data-ottawa 2y ago
        Is this worth the extra cost to the manufacturer? Most people I know just give the thing internet access, the tech geeks like us are probably a very small segment.
        consteval 2y ago
        Yes, kind of. Cars do this for sure. Pretty much all data about your car, plus all your texts and whatnot, are sent over the cellular network. They've been doing it since 2G days, too.
        reginald78 2y ago
        Probably. Even tiny amount of data per month would allow them to store new local ads and do firmware updates without consent to ruin a TV that was acceptable when purchased. They can wait until after the return window to roll them out. They could do a lot of the content detection on device and just send back the result.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        Adding a cellular radio and antenna will add a lot of cost to the BOM, and even worse, having to pay a cellular provider for service will add even more cost. Since most people happily connect their TV to their WiFi anyway, this would only catch the rare people who don't or refuse, and those people are unlikely to respond well to ads anyway, so I don't see mfgrs paying all this money just to annoy the small subset of users who hate ads this much.
    - TheRealPomax 2y ago
      That's not an ad-blocker and you know it. That's a network level DNS filter.
      - jen20 2y ago
        …so? It works better than any random browser extension I’ve encountered.
        consteval 2y ago
        Definitely not, browser extensions like U-block origin are much better because they have the context of the browser and DOM access. So ads aren't just cut out, but the space where the ads would be are too. So no white blocks stopping your reading or ":( can't display this ad" nonsense.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Well personally, it wasn't that hard for me: I have an Android TV, so I just installed the SmartTube app. (This wasn't that easy because you have to side-load the APK, but that's not difficult if you can follow some instructions on a web page.) Of course, if Android TVs with user-loaded apps go away and everyone has a locked-down Apple TV, it'll be more difficult and you'd have to block ads at the router level, but for now I'm not too worried about it. Google obviously likes the Android TV approach or else they wouldn't be supporting it as they do, and after all this time they don't seem interested in trying to lock it down the way iOS is.
    - shultays 2y ago
      Unfortunately it is not just youtube that have ads. Some TVs puts ads on your homepage. Which are still removable (for now) albeit even more tricky
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        Yeah, my Android TV has this, but honestly it's not nearly annoying enough for me to bother doing anything about. They're just simple soundless, still-picture ads for some new TV show. I only see them briefly before I select the SmartTube or Jellyfin app. They're nothing at all like YouTube ads, which are horribly annoying video ads that randomly pop up while you're watching something and can't be skipped.
    - TheRealPomax 2y ago
      Okay, so you're not using an ad blocker: you're using "a different application".
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        It's effectively the same thing. If it weren't for the ads, I wouldn't have bothered looking for an alternative YouTube viewing client. The client's biggest feature (and reason for existence) is not showing the ads. It has some other nice features too: one is the addition of SponsorBlock, which of course is just another form of ad-blocking.
- jkestner 2y ago
  Cool strawman. I got no problems denying mfgs their ad revenue by using an Apple TV. But I’ll complain on behalf of the non-HNers who should have an ad-free choice by default. The ads are coming for all of us. Apple is starting to insert their promos in Apple TV too. There’s no premium option that won’t eventually succumb to the need for moar revenue.

I'm looking forward to reading other HN users complaining about always-on ads that are easily blocked with an ad-blocker, and then when I ask them why they don't use an ad-blocker, they give me a lecture about how it's evil and immoral to block ads.

TheRealPomax 2y ago
You'll have to explain how you installed an ad-blocker on your TV (not "in the browser that you're using because you're using this as a computer monitor", on the actual TV, being used as a modern smart TV)
- jen20 2y ago
  So far a pi-hole has been sufficient.
  - darkwater 2y ago
    Wait until mandatory DNS over HTTPS with certificate pinning, embedded in the browser view is a thing everywhere. At least in the Google world, we are in a slowly boiled frog situation.
    - jen20 2y ago
      The thing I’m most worried about is manufacturers embedding a SIM to bypass my network. My current approach is no network on the vast majority of TVs (Samsung) and an Apple TV as the only connected device.
      - ssl-3 2y ago
        Services like Amazon Sidewalk exist today, whereby: Your neighbor's Amazon Echo speaker can provide a slice of connectivity to things like television.
      - data-ottawa 2y ago
        Is this worth the extra cost to the manufacturer? Most people I know just give the thing internet access, the tech geeks like us are probably a very small segment.
        consteval 2y ago
        Yes, kind of. Cars do this for sure. Pretty much all data about your car, plus all your texts and whatnot, are sent over the cellular network. They've been doing it since 2G days, too.
        reginald78 2y ago
        Probably. Even tiny amount of data per month would allow them to store new local ads and do firmware updates without consent to ruin a TV that was acceptable when purchased. They can wait until after the return window to roll them out. They could do a lot of the content detection on device and just send back the result.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        Adding a cellular radio and antenna will add a lot of cost to the BOM, and even worse, having to pay a cellular provider for service will add even more cost. Since most people happily connect their TV to their WiFi anyway, this would only catch the rare people who don't or refuse, and those people are unlikely to respond well to ads anyway, so I don't see mfgrs paying all this money just to annoy the small subset of users who hate ads this much.
  - TheRealPomax 2y ago
    That's not an ad-blocker and you know it. That's a network level DNS filter.
    - jen20 2y ago
      …so? It works better than any random browser extension I’ve encountered.
      - consteval 2y ago
        Definitely not, browser extensions like U-block origin are much better because they have the context of the browser and DOM access. So ads aren't just cut out, but the space where the ads would be are too. So no white blocks stopping your reading or ":( can't display this ad" nonsense.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Well personally, it wasn't that hard for me: I have an Android TV, so I just installed the SmartTube app. (This wasn't that easy because you have to side-load the APK, but that's not difficult if you can follow some instructions on a web page.) Of course, if Android TVs with user-loaded apps go away and everyone has a locked-down Apple TV, it'll be more difficult and you'd have to block ads at the router level, but for now I'm not too worried about it. Google obviously likes the Android TV approach or else they wouldn't be supporting it as they do, and after all this time they don't seem interested in trying to lock it down the way iOS is.
  - shultays 2y ago
    Unfortunately it is not just youtube that have ads. Some TVs puts ads on your homepage. Which are still removable (for now) albeit even more tricky
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      Yeah, my Android TV has this, but honestly it's not nearly annoying enough for me to bother doing anything about. They're just simple soundless, still-picture ads for some new TV show. I only see them briefly before I select the SmartTube or Jellyfin app. They're nothing at all like YouTube ads, which are horribly annoying video ads that randomly pop up while you're watching something and can't be skipped.
  - TheRealPomax 2y ago
    Okay, so you're not using an ad blocker: you're using "a different application".
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      It's effectively the same thing. If it weren't for the ads, I wouldn't have bothered looking for an alternative YouTube viewing client. The client's biggest feature (and reason for existence) is not showing the ads. It has some other nice features too: one is the addition of SponsorBlock, which of course is just another form of ad-blocking.
jkestner 2y ago
Cool strawman. I got no problems denying mfgs their ad revenue by using an Apple TV. But I’ll complain on behalf of the non-HNers who should have an ad-free choice by default. The ads are coming for all of us. Apple is starting to insert their promos in Apple TV too. There’s no premium option that won’t eventually succumb to the need for moar revenue.