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Lawsuits inbound. Delta appears to be gearing up for one already: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-seek-compensation-211908080.html https://fina

Lawsuits inbound. Delta appears to be gearing up for one already: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-seek-compensation-211908080.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-seek-compensa...

hypeatei 2y ago
> has hired a law firm and will seek compensation from Microsoft and CrowdStrike Going after Microsoft seems like a misguided move here. What does Microsoft have to do with a third party driver installed by your own IT department?
- travoc 2y ago
  It was too tempting to include damages from accidentally enabling New New Outlook.
- bruce511 2y ago
  I suspect the lawsuit is created by lawyers, not techies. Equally reporting on this whole issue seems to be by journalists, not techies. It's been framed (a lot) as a Windows issue not a Crowd Strike issue. (8.5 million machines were affected, out of 1.4+ billion windows machines [1]) I have one affected customer (10k machines) who assumed I'd suffered like he did, and was surprised when I said we weren't affected. The reporting was consistently that it was a Windows issue, caused by an MS update. Even this article leans into this narrative... "as the New York Times put it, “It is more apt to ask what was not affected.” The answer is Linux, Macs, and phones." Let me add "not to mention 99.4% of windows". So the journalists don't know what happened, or who was affected, and felt "some computers have a problem" was a weak headline. The lawyers get that narrative and run with it. And yes, it's easy to squint and claim the "OS should cope with this", but there's realistically limits on what an OS can do once you install a kernel-level driver on the machine. Should we go after Intel for making the chips? [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/608447/microsoft-delighted-by-windows-11-usage-but-what-is-it.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/608447/microsoft-delighted-b...
  - realusername 2y ago
    Reports in the mainstream media were absolutely insane. All the language used points to some kind of unlucky event similar to a bad weather pattern. I knew the general IT knowledge isn't very high but I didn't expect newspapers to report on it like a tornado or an earthquake...
  - fsflover 2y ago
    It's arguably also a fault of MS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41096344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41096344
    - vel0city 2y ago
      > Windows is unsuitable precisely because it can be brought down by third party updates If I run bullshit on a Linux or MacOS box it can also be unstable and brought to its knees. Or is that poster really trying to argue there's no way you can get a Linux box to lock up?
      - fsflover 2y ago
        Key quote from my link: > Third party vendors are forced into writing unsafe kernel drivers because Microsoft does not provide sufficient user mode APIs. AFAIK it's different on Linux, and the reliability is higher. Is this not the case?
        vel0city 2y ago
        https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockylinux-after-9-4-upgrade/14041 https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockyli... https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html You can install buggy kernel modules in Linux as well. I can't even count how many times an apt upgrade/yum update made my system unbootable when using nvidia GPU drivers. And besides, if you're really wanting that AV system to deeply know about everything the operating system is doing and hook into tons of syscalls, you pretty much can't be running exclusively in usermode. If someone compromised the root of the system you then can't trust the info the kernel is giving your usermode application. eBPF isn't usermode. And in the end, the poster literally said Windows is unsuitable because third party updates can kill it. That was the key takeaway from their post. Well, third party updates can kill Linux, it can kill MacOS, it can kill darn near everything.
- L-four 2y ago
  You, want Microsoft named in the case so CrowdStrike can't defect that it's Microsoft's fault.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

hypeatei 2y ago

> has hired a law firm and will seek compensation from Microsoft and CrowdStrike Going after Microsoft seems like a misguided move here. What does Microsoft have to do with a third party driver installed by your own IT department?

travoc 2y ago
It was too tempting to include damages from accidentally enabling New New Outlook.
bruce511 2y ago
I suspect the lawsuit is created by lawyers, not techies. Equally reporting on this whole issue seems to be by journalists, not techies. It's been framed (a lot) as a Windows issue not a Crowd Strike issue. (8.5 million machines were affected, out of 1.4+ billion windows machines [1]) I have one affected customer (10k machines) who assumed I'd suffered like he did, and was surprised when I said we weren't affected. The reporting was consistently that it was a Windows issue, caused by an MS update. Even this article leans into this narrative... "as the New York Times put it, “It is more apt to ask what was not affected.” The answer is Linux, Macs, and phones." Let me add "not to mention 99.4% of windows". So the journalists don't know what happened, or who was affected, and felt "some computers have a problem" was a weak headline. The lawyers get that narrative and run with it. And yes, it's easy to squint and claim the "OS should cope with this", but there's realistically limits on what an OS can do once you install a kernel-level driver on the machine. Should we go after Intel for making the chips? [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/608447/microsoft-delighted-by-windows-11-usage-but-what-is-it.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/608447/microsoft-delighted-b...
- realusername 2y ago
  Reports in the mainstream media were absolutely insane. All the language used points to some kind of unlucky event similar to a bad weather pattern. I knew the general IT knowledge isn't very high but I didn't expect newspapers to report on it like a tornado or an earthquake...
- fsflover 2y ago
  It's arguably also a fault of MS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41096344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41096344
  - vel0city 2y ago
    > Windows is unsuitable precisely because it can be brought down by third party updates If I run bullshit on a Linux or MacOS box it can also be unstable and brought to its knees. Or is that poster really trying to argue there's no way you can get a Linux box to lock up?
    - fsflover 2y ago
      Key quote from my link: > Third party vendors are forced into writing unsafe kernel drivers because Microsoft does not provide sufficient user mode APIs. AFAIK it's different on Linux, and the reliability is higher. Is this not the case?
      - vel0city 2y ago
        https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockylinux-after-9-4-upgrade/14041 https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/crowdstrike-freezing-rockyli... https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00202.html You can install buggy kernel modules in Linux as well. I can't even count how many times an apt upgrade/yum update made my system unbootable when using nvidia GPU drivers. And besides, if you're really wanting that AV system to deeply know about everything the operating system is doing and hook into tons of syscalls, you pretty much can't be running exclusively in usermode. If someone compromised the root of the system you then can't trust the info the kernel is giving your usermode application. eBPF isn't usermode. And in the end, the poster literally said Windows is unsuitable because third party updates can kill it. That was the key takeaway from their post. Well, third party updates can kill Linux, it can kill MacOS, it can kill darn near everything.
L-four 2y ago
You, want Microsoft named in the case so CrowdStrike can't defect that it's Microsoft's fault.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]