4 ms·

> repealing jus soli and all the other racist dogwhistles What exactly is racist about being against jus soli? Personally, I think birthright citizenship solv

> repealing jus soli and all the other racist dogwhistles What exactly is racist about being against jus soli? Personally, I think birthright citizenship solves more problems than it causes but I also see the arguments against it. Most countries in Africa, Europe, and Asia don't have it. None of the Nordic countries have it - are they racist? I thought those were the countries everyone says we should try and be more like?

worstspotgain 2y ago
> What exactly is racist about being against jus soli? Pretty much everything? If some new country like South Sudan was picking a rule from scratch, one could perhaps convincingly claim to be against jus soli for reasons other than racism. But to push for a constitutional amendment to deny citizenship to babies that are American in every way betrays the obvious reason for doing so. It just doesn't fool anyone.
- sneed_chucker 2y ago
  Yeah, I'm not really convinced. Just sounds like you feel very strongly about this and want to say "everyone who disagrees with me is racist". The majority of the world's population lives in countries that don't do birthright citizenship. Jus Soli definitely gets abused. Cheap international flights didn't exist in 1866 when birthright citizenship became part of US law. I could see merit in amending those laws, perhaps not abolishing it but maybe tightening it to only apply to children of legal residents or something like that. That's a system that many countries use, including progressive European states.
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    Trying to put motivations out of bounds over whether something is racist or not has historically been the core tactic in the bigot's playbook. We're all in favor of voters being literate, aren't we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test The argument that a rule is color-blind on paper doesn't make systems that are incredibly racist any less so.
    - sneed_chucker 2y ago
      Don't see how that's relevant. Other laws were racist, therefore a law removing Jus Soli would be racist?
      - worstspotgain 2y ago
        The literacy test was a law that was colorblind on paper but that furthered a racist outcome in practice, which is why it was passed by bigots. The jus soli repeal is a constitutional amendment that's colorblind on paper but that furthers a racist outcome in practice, which is why it's being promoted by bigots.

worstspotgain 2y ago

> What exactly is racist about being against jus soli? Pretty much everything? If some new country like South Sudan was picking a rule from scratch, one could perhaps convincingly claim to be against jus soli for reasons other than racism. But to push for a constitutional amendment to deny citizenship to babies that are American in every way betrays the obvious reason for doing so. It just doesn't fool anyone.

sneed_chucker 2y ago
Yeah, I'm not really convinced. Just sounds like you feel very strongly about this and want to say "everyone who disagrees with me is racist". The majority of the world's population lives in countries that don't do birthright citizenship. Jus Soli definitely gets abused. Cheap international flights didn't exist in 1866 when birthright citizenship became part of US law. I could see merit in amending those laws, perhaps not abolishing it but maybe tightening it to only apply to children of legal residents or something like that. That's a system that many countries use, including progressive European states.
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  Trying to put motivations out of bounds over whether something is racist or not has historically been the core tactic in the bigot's playbook. We're all in favor of voters being literate, aren't we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test The argument that a rule is color-blind on paper doesn't make systems that are incredibly racist any less so.
  - sneed_chucker 2y ago
    Don't see how that's relevant. Other laws were racist, therefore a law removing Jus Soli would be racist?
    - worstspotgain 2y ago
      The literacy test was a law that was colorblind on paper but that furthered a racist outcome in practice, which is why it was passed by bigots. The jus soli repeal is a constitutional amendment that's colorblind on paper but that furthers a racist outcome in practice, which is why it's being promoted by bigots.