4 ms·

I wonder who will be first to ship an 8-pin 64-bit microcontroller? It seems like it is only a matter of time.

by floxy 2y ago

dragontamer 2y ago
This appears to be a 325-pin 0.6mm pitch BGA... or somewhere around that. This is a full bore Linux-capable microprocessor supporting LPDDR4 and 1Gbit Ethernet. No where close to PC level, but maybe close to Rasp. Pi 1 levels.
UncleOxidant 2y ago
Is this a reference to the processor in the Aronofsky movie Pi? Always found that scene really funny. They're hyping up this chip as the most powerful chip in the world (called "Ming Mecca") and then the guy opens up the box to show a chip with like 4 pins.
- floxy 2y ago
  No. I've never seen the movie. We already have 32-bit microcontrollers in 8 pin packages [0]. Seems like 64-bit will also be coming down the pike eventually. If for no other reason than ease of toolchain development. [0] https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32g041j6.html https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32...
  - brucehoult 2y ago
    Mmmm ... CM0, 64 MHz, 8k RAM, 32k flash. I hit "Order direct" and it says "$0.93 | 10ku" which I take to mean you need to spend $9300 to get that price? I added one to my cart and it's $2.04. If you can get by with 48 MHz, 2k RAM, 16k flash then there's the very popular RISC-V CH32V003 for which you need to spend $6.21 to get a $0.12 each price (50 units) [1]. Or for around $0.30 each (qty 20) you can get the CH32V203 with 144 MHz, 20k RAM, 64k flash, and USB. However the smallest package for that seems to be 20 pins. But the '003 is getting very popular for cute little projects. It runs on both 3.3V and 5V, needs no external oscillator or crystal (but can use one), has Single Wire Debug, and is (along with the Puya PY32) the cheapest flash-based microcontroller you can get, allowing you to iterate your code without throwing away a chip every time. A cute little €1 retro computer with PS/2 kb and bit-banged VGA: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/RVPC/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/RVPC/open-so... A mini game console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7Z0BodhWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7Z0BodhWk Driving a Nixie tube from USB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4d3PgEXhdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4d3PgEXhdY [1] https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804850399956.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804850399956.html
    - floxy 2y ago
      The RV32EC instruction set in the CH32V003 doesn't even have a hardware multiplier, right? https://riscv.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/riscv-spec-v2.1.pdf https://riscv.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/riscv-spec-v2.1... If you really want luxury and can afford the 28-pins, the Microchip PIC32MK0128MCA028 has a 32-bit MIPS core running at 120 MHz, with a hardware floating point unit.
      - snvzz 2y ago
        For luxury, there is ESP32-P4. The just-announced Raspberry Pi Pico 2 looks nice as well.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    Why would this be easier to work with? 64 bit comes with additional costs that are mostly worthless for most applications, and toolchains around 32 bit are still plentiful. Most embedded interfaces are either 8 or 32 bit based today, too.
- jareklupinski 2y ago
  > a chip with like 4 pins Power, Ground, Data In, Data Out does the perfect architecture need more?
  - dragontamer 2y ago
    A lot of devices, such as RFID, are just Power (no ground, no data). AC Power delivered by Radio provides both high-and-low voltage, which is captured by the end device. The end device can then respond over that same frequency by pulsing. ----- There's also a variety of Power+Ground / 2-wire devices on the market if you are in DC (Data shared on the Power-line), which is kind of the idea behind 4-20 (draw between 4mA to 20mA depending on remote sensor information). There's a wide variety of techniques to multiplex data "into" the power-line. If you absolutely must have a minimum number of pins, the absolute minimum is Power+Data and Ground (where Data is say... current based like 4-20mA protocol). Power stays at 24V relative to ground, while the device changes its own current based on sensors to communicate. The power-line can measure the current. ------- I know I was looking at a pulsed power / changing current protocol recently. Basically the current "pulses" based on the information it wants to send back. So its different than 4-20mA but still a similar concept (pulse-current-modulation for communication over Power+Data line vs Ground line.)

I wonder who will be first to ship an 8-pin 64-bit microcontroller? It seems like it is only a matter of time.

by floxy 2y ago

I wonder who will be first to ship an 8-pin 64-bit microcontroller? It seems like it is only a matter of time.

This appears to be a 325-pin 0.6mm pitch BGA... or somewhere around that. This is a full bore Linux-capable microprocessor supporting LPDDR4 and 1Gbit Ethernet. No where close to PC level, but maybe close to Rasp. Pi 1 levels.

UncleOxidant 2y ago

Is this a reference to the processor in the Aronofsky movie Pi? Always found that scene really funny. They're hyping up this chip as the most powerful chip in the world (called "Ming Mecca") and then the guy opens up the box to show a chip with like 4 pins.

floxy 2y ago
No. I've never seen the movie. We already have 32-bit microcontrollers in 8 pin packages [0]. Seems like 64-bit will also be coming down the pike eventually. If for no other reason than ease of toolchain development. [0] https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32g041j6.html https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32...
- brucehoult 2y ago
  Mmmm ... CM0, 64 MHz, 8k RAM, 32k flash. I hit "Order direct" and it says "$0.93 | 10ku" which I take to mean you need to spend $9300 to get that price? I added one to my cart and it's $2.04. If you can get by with 48 MHz, 2k RAM, 16k flash then there's the very popular RISC-V CH32V003 for which you need to spend $6.21 to get a $0.12 each price (50 units) [1]. Or for around $0.30 each (qty 20) you can get the CH32V203 with 144 MHz, 20k RAM, 64k flash, and USB. However the smallest package for that seems to be 20 pins. But the '003 is getting very popular for cute little projects. It runs on both 3.3V and 5V, needs no external oscillator or crystal (but can use one), has Single Wire Debug, and is (along with the Puya PY32) the cheapest flash-based microcontroller you can get, allowing you to iterate your code without throwing away a chip every time. A cute little €1 retro computer with PS/2 kb and bit-banged VGA: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/RVPC/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/RVPC/open-so... A mini game console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7Z0BodhWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7Z0BodhWk Driving a Nixie tube from USB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4d3PgEXhdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4d3PgEXhdY [1] https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804850399956.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804850399956.html
  - floxy 2y ago
    The RV32EC instruction set in the CH32V003 doesn't even have a hardware multiplier, right? https://riscv.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/riscv-spec-v2.1.pdf https://riscv.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/riscv-spec-v2.1... If you really want luxury and can afford the 28-pins, the Microchip PIC32MK0128MCA028 has a 32-bit MIPS core running at 120 MHz, with a hardware floating point unit.
    - snvzz 2y ago
      For luxury, there is ESP32-P4. The just-announced Raspberry Pi Pico 2 looks nice as well.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  Why would this be easier to work with? 64 bit comes with additional costs that are mostly worthless for most applications, and toolchains around 32 bit are still plentiful. Most embedded interfaces are either 8 or 32 bit based today, too.
jareklupinski 2y ago
> a chip with like 4 pins Power, Ground, Data In, Data Out does the perfect architecture need more?
- dragontamer 2y ago
  A lot of devices, such as RFID, are just Power (no ground, no data). AC Power delivered by Radio provides both high-and-low voltage, which is captured by the end device. The end device can then respond over that same frequency by pulsing. ----- There's also a variety of Power+Ground / 2-wire devices on the market if you are in DC (Data shared on the Power-line), which is kind of the idea behind 4-20 (draw between 4mA to 20mA depending on remote sensor information). There's a wide variety of techniques to multiplex data "into" the power-line. If you absolutely must have a minimum number of pins, the absolute minimum is Power+Data and Ground (where Data is say... current based like 4-20mA protocol). Power stays at 24V relative to ground, while the device changes its own current based on sensors to communicate. The power-line can measure the current. ------- I know I was looking at a pulsed power / changing current protocol recently. Basically the current "pulses" based on the information it wants to send back. So its different than 4-20mA but still a similar concept (pulse-current-modulation for communication over Power+Data line vs Ground line.)