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Of the subset of unintentional crashes it's hard to say how many of them are from irresponsible driving behavior. But I do know that the vast majority of people

Of the subset of unintentional crashes it's hard to say how many of them are from irresponsible driving behavior. But I do know that the vast majority of people driving around me on highways/freeways/etc do not obey the speed limit and instead just sort of travel in high speed flocks. Like they don't care that they're operating extremely dangerous vehicles doing an extremely dangerous thing. This is not intent to cause harm but more like playing catch with a loaded firearm.

chrstphrknwtn 2y ago
I agree say this is generally true in the United States, where driving discipline on highways is basically non-existent. Although I would stop short of calling it "extremely dangerous".
- tomgp 2y ago
  How many people would need to die each year for it to be considered extremely dangerous? Literal wars have been started over fewer deaths than the US road network racks up in a year. OK I’m being facetious but the extent to which we’ve normalised 40,000+ deaths a year really is remarkable, can you imagine the reaction if smart phones killed that many?
  - chrstphrknwtn 2y ago
    Sure, it's problem. But speeding-related fatalities accounted for 30% of traffic fatalities in the US for 2022. Which implies there are plenty of other issues, such that I think saying "speeding is violence" doesn't really do anything to address the problem.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  Roadway injuries and deaths are both leading causes for many demographics and the US has a death rate three times Canada's, per capita. More than 4x the UK's. I'd call that extremely dangerous...
  - chrstphrknwtn 2y ago
    And 70% of those deaths are not considering "speeding-related"[1]. Focussing on speeding seems to ignore that there are other serious issues that contribute to the outsized danger on US roads. [1] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safety-issues/speeding/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safe...
Zak 2y ago
People driving at the speed of surrounding traffic are not creating a particularly high risk even if their speed exceeds the posted speed limit. People driving at a different speed from surrounding traffic do create an unusual risk, even if that speed is legal and the other drivers are speeding. This becomes less true in places like Germany where lane discipline is very strict. It's not rare to see extreme speed differentials on unlimited speed sections of German Autobahns, but it is rare to see crashes there.
- superkuh 2y ago
  People who do not drive the speed limit are objectively breaking the law. And generally each flock travels at a different speed. After all, they have no way to communicate a common speed standard like, say, a speed limit.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  > People driving at the speed of surrounding traffic are not creating a particularly high risk even if their speed exceeds the posted speed limit. The whole "everything is fine as long as everyone is doing the same speed" bit is a myth. For every percent increase in speed, this leads to a 2% change in injury accidents, a 3% change in severe injury accidents and a 4% change in fatal accidents. https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/safe-speed/archive/speed-and-injury-risk-different-speed-levels_en https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-po... More about speed vs injury/death rates: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-crash-tests-show-modest-speed-increases-can-have-deadly-consequences https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-crash-tests-show-modest... https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1304/Resources3/08%20-%20The%20Relation%20Between%20Speed%20and%20Crashes.pdf https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1304/Res... Why? Kinetic energy is a function of velocity squared, influencing injury severity and stopping distances.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Just to be clear, are you and others in this thread advocating driving the posted 45MPH speed limit on a highway where the actual flow of traffic is going 65MPH? And you don't think that's going to be disruptive to the point of causing accidents?

chrstphrknwtn 2y ago

I agree say this is generally true in the United States, where driving discipline on highways is basically non-existent. Although I would stop short of calling it "extremely dangerous".

tomgp 2y ago
How many people would need to die each year for it to be considered extremely dangerous? Literal wars have been started over fewer deaths than the US road network racks up in a year. OK I’m being facetious but the extent to which we’ve normalised 40,000+ deaths a year really is remarkable, can you imagine the reaction if smart phones killed that many?
- chrstphrknwtn 2y ago
  Sure, it's problem. But speeding-related fatalities accounted for 30% of traffic fatalities in the US for 2022. Which implies there are plenty of other issues, such that I think saying "speeding is violence" doesn't really do anything to address the problem.
KennyBlanken 2y ago
Roadway injuries and deaths are both leading causes for many demographics and the US has a death rate three times Canada's, per capita. More than 4x the UK's. I'd call that extremely dangerous...
- chrstphrknwtn 2y ago
  And 70% of those deaths are not considering "speeding-related"[1]. Focussing on speeding seems to ignore that there are other serious issues that contribute to the outsized danger on US roads. [1] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safety-issues/speeding/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safe...

Zak 2y ago

People driving at the speed of surrounding traffic are not creating a particularly high risk even if their speed exceeds the posted speed limit. People driving at a different speed from surrounding traffic do create an unusual risk, even if that speed is legal and the other drivers are speeding. This becomes less true in places like Germany where lane discipline is very strict. It's not rare to see extreme speed differentials on unlimited speed sections of German Autobahns, but it is rare to see crashes there.

superkuh 2y ago
People who do not drive the speed limit are objectively breaking the law. And generally each flock travels at a different speed. After all, they have no way to communicate a common speed standard like, say, a speed limit.
KennyBlanken 2y ago
> People driving at the speed of surrounding traffic are not creating a particularly high risk even if their speed exceeds the posted speed limit. The whole "everything is fine as long as everyone is doing the same speed" bit is a myth. For every percent increase in speed, this leads to a 2% change in injury accidents, a 3% change in severe injury accidents and a 4% change in fatal accidents. https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/safe-speed/archive/speed-and-injury-risk-different-speed-levels_en https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-po... More about speed vs injury/death rates: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-crash-tests-show-modest-speed-increases-can-have-deadly-consequences https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-crash-tests-show-modest... https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1304/Resources3/08%20-%20The%20Relation%20Between%20Speed%20and%20Crashes.pdf https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1304/Res... Why? Kinetic energy is a function of velocity squared, influencing injury severity and stopping distances.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Just to be clear, are you and others in this thread advocating driving the posted 45MPH speed limit on a highway where the actual flow of traffic is going 65MPH? And you don't think that's going to be disruptive to the point of causing accidents?