4 ms·

Your first two examples I have no idea what they are without translating. Are you saying English speakers commonly know those first two phrases?

samatman 2y ago
Yes. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joie%20de%20vivre https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joie%20de%20vivre https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/très_chic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/très_chic English is a very large language in terms of vocabulary, but I would expect educated people to know joie de vivre and almost anyone to know très chic, although not necessarily how to spell it (and the accent grave is basically an affectation: "proper" English spelling does include various diacritics, but informally it's very rare to actually include them).
- kragen 2y ago
  i love the orderves
- theultdev 2y ago
  I think you have a biased view of what is common knowledge. Certainly up north I could see those being known, as it's more likely you had French in highschool. In the south, there are many common Spanish phrases known. I know some French phrases but I have never heard anyone say the ones you mentioned, nor did I know them. I would consider myself "educated".
  - mionhe 2y ago
    I think most people believe what they grew up with is common until they run into evidence that it isn't. That being said, I've both heard and used those phrases, and not in an "educated" context. Sometimes they say what you want to say better than another phrase that uses entirely English words.
    - ncruces 2y ago
      https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
  - samatman 2y ago
    At the risk of stating some obvious things: the claim that most educated persons would know these phrases does not imply that all educated persons must know these phrases. Nor does it imply that someone isn't educated if they don't. I'm aware that I said that said I would expect educated people to know joie de vivre and, in fact, I do. I find it somewhat surprising that you claim to have never heard it before, but hey, I believe you. It doesn't change my expectation, though, which is formed by many years of saying it and having the people around me understand what I said. In many US states, including Southern ones, and abroad as well. But no, they aren't "up north" regionalisms at all, and their existence in the language has nothing to do with American elementary schools having French classes or not. They're known throughout the Commonwealth, for instance. These are just undigested bits of French which live in the language, like a priori is to Latin.

samatman 2y ago

Yes. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joie%20de%20vivre https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joie%20de%20vivre https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/très_chic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/très_chic English is a very large language in terms of vocabulary, but I would expect educated people to know joie de vivre and almost anyone to know très chic, although not necessarily how to spell it (and the accent grave is basically an affectation: "proper" English spelling does include various diacritics, but informally it's very rare to actually include them).

kragen 2y ago
i love the orderves
theultdev 2y ago
I think you have a biased view of what is common knowledge. Certainly up north I could see those being known, as it's more likely you had French in highschool. In the south, there are many common Spanish phrases known. I know some French phrases but I have never heard anyone say the ones you mentioned, nor did I know them. I would consider myself "educated".
- mionhe 2y ago
  I think most people believe what they grew up with is common until they run into evidence that it isn't. That being said, I've both heard and used those phrases, and not in an "educated" context. Sometimes they say what you want to say better than another phrase that uses entirely English words.
  - ncruces 2y ago
    https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
- samatman 2y ago
  At the risk of stating some obvious things: the claim that most educated persons would know these phrases does not imply that all educated persons must know these phrases. Nor does it imply that someone isn't educated if they don't. I'm aware that I said that said I would expect educated people to know joie de vivre and, in fact, I do. I find it somewhat surprising that you claim to have never heard it before, but hey, I believe you. It doesn't change my expectation, though, which is formed by many years of saying it and having the people around me understand what I said. In many US states, including Southern ones, and abroad as well. But no, they aren't "up north" regionalisms at all, and their existence in the language has nothing to do with American elementary schools having French classes or not. They're known throughout the Commonwealth, for instance. These are just undigested bits of French which live in the language, like a priori is to Latin.