4 ms·

You’re shifting practically the entirety of the blame to a company that at best was an accomplice to the issue. I get that you hate Microsoft, but not everythi

You’re shifting practically the entirety of the blame to a company that at best was an accomplice to the issue. I get that you hate Microsoft, but not everything is their fault and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise. > ing. The fact that people feel they need to deploy CS is a Microsoft failure. CS is also available and widely deployed on Mac and Linux. Is that a failure of Apple and all the distros? It literally took down Debian and Red Hat systems earlier this year, is that also not CS’s fault?

naasking 2y ago
> I get that you hate Microsoft, I don't. > CS is also available and widely deployed on Mac and Linux. Is that a failure of Apple and all the distros Yes. All widely deployed commodity operating systems have terrible security designs. None of them have access control systems that enable the principle least privilege, let alone encourage or prioritize it, and none of them are written in robust languages that make verification of safety or security properties possible. Microsoft has made some headway on partial verification, but it's a far cry from what's needed.
- mynameisvlad 2y ago
  > Yes. All widely deployed commodity operating systems have terrible security designs. None of them have access control systems that enable the principle least privilege, let alone encourage or prioritize it, and none of them are written in robust languages that make verification of safety or security properties possible. Microsoft has made some headway on partial verification, but it's a far cry from what's needed. What, exactly, is your solution then? To never use a computer again? Because that's certainly what it sounds like.
  - naasking 2y ago
    Secure, robust operating system designs have been known since the 1970s. KeyKOS, EROS, CapROS. All commodity systems instead use classic access control lists, subject to fundamentally unsolvable access control vulnerabilities. seL4 finally implemented those lessons but it's far from a commodity operating system.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Can you point to an OS that can actually be used as a general-purpose OS? Or are you going to tell us that trying to run a web browser is actually what is fundamentally wrong with technology these days?
      - naasking 2y ago
        Qubes OS is the best thing available now for people who want more security. Not ideal still, but much better than the status quo.

naasking 2y ago

> I get that you hate Microsoft, I don't. > CS is also available and widely deployed on Mac and Linux. Is that a failure of Apple and all the distros Yes. All widely deployed commodity operating systems have terrible security designs. None of them have access control systems that enable the principle least privilege, let alone encourage or prioritize it, and none of them are written in robust languages that make verification of safety or security properties possible. Microsoft has made some headway on partial verification, but it's a far cry from what's needed.

mynameisvlad 2y ago
> Yes. All widely deployed commodity operating systems have terrible security designs. None of them have access control systems that enable the principle least privilege, let alone encourage or prioritize it, and none of them are written in robust languages that make verification of safety or security properties possible. Microsoft has made some headway on partial verification, but it's a far cry from what's needed. What, exactly, is your solution then? To never use a computer again? Because that's certainly what it sounds like.
- naasking 2y ago
  Secure, robust operating system designs have been known since the 1970s. KeyKOS, EROS, CapROS. All commodity systems instead use classic access control lists, subject to fundamentally unsolvable access control vulnerabilities. seL4 finally implemented those lessons but it's far from a commodity operating system.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Can you point to an OS that can actually be used as a general-purpose OS? Or are you going to tell us that trying to run a web browser is actually what is fundamentally wrong with technology these days?
    - naasking 2y ago
      Qubes OS is the best thing available now for people who want more security. Not ideal still, but much better than the status quo.