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Reddit is having a (characteristically) weird reaction to this news. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1eetmee/farleft_extremists_likely_behind_france_r

Reddit is having a (characteristically) weird reaction to this news. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1eetmee/farleft_extremists_likely_behind_france_rail/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1eetmee/farleft_ext... I don't get why it's so hard to believe that anarchists would do exactly what they say they want to do. The anarchists I've met are steadfast about anti-nationalism and it's hard to imagine a more globally nationalistic event than the Olympics.

mistermann 2y ago
There is widespread desire for this to be Russian in origin. HN had plenty of this as well. Propaganda remains popular because it works so well. Humans, including smart ones, are highly susceptible to well told stories. This is a very important topic, but there is something about it that makes it essentially impossible to discuss at the object level (during a specific incident) without people losing control. Maybe certain kinds of thinking are like juggling. A previous discussion (search on Russia): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41076831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41076831
- coldtea 2y ago
  It would help justify continuing support for funding the Ukraine war and further militarization, to a public tired of this shit. Such operations are a tale as old as Goebbels.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    "Justification" is more of the same thing: very powerful Meme Magic, the root cause of these problems. Find some culture war discussions online and search for that term. Or, vice versa: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=%22does+not+justify%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22justification%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22is+not+justified%22+site%3Areddit.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22is+not+justified%22+site%... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22justification%22+site%3Areddit.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22justification%22+site%3Ar... Look at all the confused yet ultra-confident Humans!
  - racional 2y ago
    So what is your working proposal to end "this shit" -- this evil war propped up by Goebbelsian machinations, per your insinuation -- then? Specifically which of Ukraine's regions are you willing to hand over (in terms of granting permanent recognized sovereignty) to Russia in order to make that happen? Because that's the name of the game, here.
    - sabbaticaldev 2y ago
      when you put yourself in a dead end solution, cut the loss short might be, unfortunately, the best solution
      - racional 2y ago
        So the fate of the people directly affected is of such negligible concern to you -- that you don't see a need to give a straight answer?
        sabbaticaldev 2y ago
        they chose to fight and lost. I rather prefer them to live than keep dying a meaningless death. Ukrainians were led to believe they could win a war against Russia which have never been true.
        mopsi 2y ago
        Every day that keeps Russian rapists and murderers away from more Ukrainian cities, towns and villages is a victory. There is nothing meaningless about protecting your loved ones from the fate that people in the occupied territories have suffered.
        sabbaticaldev 2y ago
        the leadership that dragged the whole country to the war should respond for their crimes then.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 2y ago
That sounds like a carricature of anarchism in some comic. Anarchists in real life are concerned with fascism, capitalism, opression, etc, not the Olympics. And even if they did, it's hardly "nationalistic", it's a global gathering of different countries for friendly competition, almost the opposite of nationalism. There would be thousands more nationalistic things to concern themselves.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  I think your description of anarchists is pretty idealistic In my experience, many people who label themselves anarchists are just rebels without a cause. They don't like authority of any sort. Also the Olympics is absolutely nationalist. The competition is friendly but most people don't watch it saying "I hope they all just have fun", they watch it to see their country win.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    >In my experience, many people who label themselves anarchists are just rebels without a cause. They don't like authority of any sort. Which is all good an well. Doesn't mean they go around sabotaging the Olympic Games. More like demonstrating against the police and such. >Also the Olympics is absolutely nationalist. The competition is friendly but most people don't watch it saying "I hope they all just have fun", they watch it to see their country win. As far as nationalism goes that's not even worth mentioning, that's peanuts. The last thing any anarchist would be concerned with.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- lahvak 2y ago
  Olympics are a great point of national pride for the organizing country. I don't understand why these days we still let each Olympics be organized by a single country. It could very easily become a global event, where different disciplines would happen in different parts of the world. More importantly, though, Olympics have become a major capitalism fest, its increasingly about consumption, and a small number of already very rich people making shitload of money at the expense of the public in the organizing country.
euroderf 2y ago
I always hope to see someone waving a UN flag at the Olympic openings. Doesn't happen.
quantified 2y ago
Anarchists seem more right-wing than left-wing, about as far towards individual freedom and lack of government as you can go.
- anankaie 2y ago
  Individual liberty is not a “right-wing” concept, any more than “authoritarian dictatorship” is. Left/Right division does not map this axis well, being primarily concerned with the moral implications of excludable/rival property ownership.

mistermann 2y ago

There is widespread desire for this to be Russian in origin. HN had plenty of this as well. Propaganda remains popular because it works so well. Humans, including smart ones, are highly susceptible to well told stories. This is a very important topic, but there is something about it that makes it essentially impossible to discuss at the object level (during a specific incident) without people losing control. Maybe certain kinds of thinking are like juggling. A previous discussion (search on Russia): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41076831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41076831

coldtea 2y ago
It would help justify continuing support for funding the Ukraine war and further militarization, to a public tired of this shit. Such operations are a tale as old as Goebbels.
- mistermann 2y ago
  "Justification" is more of the same thing: very powerful Meme Magic, the root cause of these problems. Find some culture war discussions online and search for that term. Or, vice versa: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=%22does+not+justify%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22justification%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22is+not+justified%22+site%3Areddit.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22is+not+justified%22+site%... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22justification%22+site%3Areddit.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22justification%22+site%3Ar... Look at all the confused yet ultra-confident Humans!
- racional 2y ago
  So what is your working proposal to end "this shit" -- this evil war propped up by Goebbelsian machinations, per your insinuation -- then? Specifically which of Ukraine's regions are you willing to hand over (in terms of granting permanent recognized sovereignty) to Russia in order to make that happen? Because that's the name of the game, here.
  - sabbaticaldev 2y ago
    when you put yourself in a dead end solution, cut the loss short might be, unfortunately, the best solution
    - racional 2y ago
      So the fate of the people directly affected is of such negligible concern to you -- that you don't see a need to give a straight answer?
      - sabbaticaldev 2y ago
        they chose to fight and lost. I rather prefer them to live than keep dying a meaningless death. Ukrainians were led to believe they could win a war against Russia which have never been true.
        mopsi 2y ago
        Every day that keeps Russian rapists and murderers away from more Ukrainian cities, towns and villages is a victory. There is nothing meaningless about protecting your loved ones from the fate that people in the occupied territories have suffered.
        sabbaticaldev 2y ago
        the leadership that dragged the whole country to the war should respond for their crimes then.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 2y ago

That sounds like a carricature of anarchism in some comic. Anarchists in real life are concerned with fascism, capitalism, opression, etc, not the Olympics. And even if they did, it's hardly "nationalistic", it's a global gathering of different countries for friendly competition, almost the opposite of nationalism. There would be thousands more nationalistic things to concern themselves.

bluefirebrand 2y ago
I think your description of anarchists is pretty idealistic In my experience, many people who label themselves anarchists are just rebels without a cause. They don't like authority of any sort. Also the Olympics is absolutely nationalist. The competition is friendly but most people don't watch it saying "I hope they all just have fun", they watch it to see their country win.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >In my experience, many people who label themselves anarchists are just rebels without a cause. They don't like authority of any sort. Which is all good an well. Doesn't mean they go around sabotaging the Olympic Games. More like demonstrating against the police and such. >Also the Olympics is absolutely nationalist. The competition is friendly but most people don't watch it saying "I hope they all just have fun", they watch it to see their country win. As far as nationalism goes that's not even worth mentioning, that's peanuts. The last thing any anarchist would be concerned with.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
lahvak 2y ago
Olympics are a great point of national pride for the organizing country. I don't understand why these days we still let each Olympics be organized by a single country. It could very easily become a global event, where different disciplines would happen in different parts of the world. More importantly, though, Olympics have become a major capitalism fest, its increasingly about consumption, and a small number of already very rich people making shitload of money at the expense of the public in the organizing country.

euroderf 2y ago

I always hope to see someone waving a UN flag at the Olympic openings. Doesn't happen.

quantified 2y ago

Anarchists seem more right-wing than left-wing, about as far towards individual freedom and lack of government as you can go.

anankaie 2y ago
Individual liberty is not a “right-wing” concept, any more than “authoritarian dictatorship” is. Left/Right division does not map this axis well, being primarily concerned with the moral implications of excludable/rival property ownership.