5 ms·

Tsoding livestreams trying out C3 (programming language) [video]

48 points by lerno 2y ago

ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
Somehow strange that the whole video is about FFI with C (Raylib). I'd prefer seeing something about C3's special features like ML (no, not THAT ML) style modules, contracts, (real, as in "not CPP") macros, error handling, ... And a LSP exists, but isn't the most stable: https://github.com/pherrymason/c3-lsp https://github.com/pherrymason/c3-lsp
- self_awareness 2y ago
  Interoperability with C is one of their main points, so it's logical they want to focus on that. Even more, the success of today's language is also being measured how well it behaves with existing codebase. It will be more true in the future, because the existing source code only grows. Well, maybe the last bit isn't true for webdev, where if the code rots it's simply being deleted. Web applications, if they're taken off production, they're nowhere to be seen, most people never realizing they ever existed, but even if they knew those applications existed at some point in time, they would never be able to even see how they looked like.
ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
The links from the video's description: https://c3-lang.org/ https://c3-lang.org/ https://github.com/c3lang/c3c https://github.com/c3lang/c3c https://github.com/c3lang/editor-plugins https://github.com/c3lang/editor-plugins Code: https://github.com/tsoding/c3-demo https://github.com/tsoding/c3-demo
stefanos82 2y ago
I watch his livestreams on Twitch; last night he continued his C3 journey with incredible results! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2209655398 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2209655398
- ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
  > he continued his C3 journey with incredible results! And you wouldn't believe what happened next! But seriously: what results?
  - stefanos82 2y ago
    ...what he accomplished to achieve in 48 minutes with a newly learnt programming language?
    - ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
      Please tell me what he did so I don't have to watch a 2 hour video.
    - arghwhat 2y ago
      ... and what did he achieve? With just 48 minutes, I greatly doubt anything news-worthy.
jacknews 2y ago
Difficult to take him seriously with such a childishly condescending attitude.
- trwhite 2y ago
  I agree. I find myself disengaged as soon as someone makes fun of the hard work of others. Intelligent people don't typically do this.
  - JonChesterfield 2y ago
    The rationale for removing goto is: > Rationale: It is very difficult to make goto work well with defer and implicit unwrapping of optional results. It is not just making the compiler harder to write, but the code is harder to understand as well. That seems to fit your heuristic. Goto being difficult to implement in the compiler doesn't match expected reality.
    - rob74 2y ago
      It's not difficult to implement goto as such, it's just a JMP instruction, but (I'm not a compiler developer, but I can imagine) implementing goto without introducing strange bugs or crashes is a bit more difficult.
      - JonChesterfield 2y ago
        Compilers really like canonical forms. There's a good chance that if, for, while, goto, break and so forth all turn into an edge between basic blocks (anything that doesn't have a branch or branch target in it). In a rather literal sense it's usually all sugar over goto, unless you're doing something niche like carefully preserving structure because your target language doesn't have branches. So seeing someone say that their compiler struggles to represent goto throws some doubt on how the thing is implemented. Goto should generally be the easiest possible control flow to translate into your IR.
    - lerno 2y ago
rob74 2y ago
Oh no, another would-be C replacement. I wonder if there is a list somewhere?
- ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
  Hmm, let me try and ignore anything up to and including ADA and all "C++ replacements" (so no Rust, Carbon, ...): C3, Zig, Austral, Hare, Vale, V, Odin, Jai.
  - memsom 2y ago
    I would put Carbon in the list on the right. Zig is more worthy of being on the left, but even then I'm not 100% sure of that statement.
hailruda 2y ago
How does it compare to Zig? Does it inherit C macros?
- ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
  https://c3-lang.org/references/docs/compare/#zig https://c3-lang.org/references/docs/compare/#zig
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  "The old C macro system is replaced by a new C3 macro system."
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

48 points by lerno 2y ago

Somehow strange that the whole video is about FFI with C (Raylib). I'd prefer seeing something about C3's special features like ML (no, not THAT ML) style modules, contracts, (real, as in "not CPP") macros, error handling, ... And a LSP exists, but isn't the most stable: https://github.com/pherrymason/c3-lsp https://github.com/pherrymason/c3-lsp

self_awareness 2y ago
Interoperability with C is one of their main points, so it's logical they want to focus on that. Even more, the success of today's language is also being measured how well it behaves with existing codebase. It will be more true in the future, because the existing source code only grows. Well, maybe the last bit isn't true for webdev, where if the code rots it's simply being deleted. Web applications, if they're taken off production, they're nowhere to be seen, most people never realizing they ever existed, but even if they knew those applications existed at some point in time, they would never be able to even see how they looked like.

ReleaseCandidat 2y ago

The links from the video's description: https://c3-lang.org/ https://c3-lang.org/ https://github.com/c3lang/c3c https://github.com/c3lang/c3c https://github.com/c3lang/editor-plugins https://github.com/c3lang/editor-plugins Code: https://github.com/tsoding/c3-demo https://github.com/tsoding/c3-demo

stefanos82 2y ago

I watch his livestreams on Twitch; last night he continued his C3 journey with incredible results! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2209655398 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2209655398

ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
> he continued his C3 journey with incredible results! And you wouldn't believe what happened next! But seriously: what results?
- stefanos82 2y ago
  ...what he accomplished to achieve in 48 minutes with a newly learnt programming language?
  - ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
    Please tell me what he did so I don't have to watch a 2 hour video.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    ... and what did he achieve? With just 48 minutes, I greatly doubt anything news-worthy.

jacknews 2y ago

Difficult to take him seriously with such a childishly condescending attitude.

trwhite 2y ago
I agree. I find myself disengaged as soon as someone makes fun of the hard work of others. Intelligent people don't typically do this.
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  The rationale for removing goto is: > Rationale: It is very difficult to make goto work well with defer and implicit unwrapping of optional results. It is not just making the compiler harder to write, but the code is harder to understand as well. That seems to fit your heuristic. Goto being difficult to implement in the compiler doesn't match expected reality.
  - rob74 2y ago
    It's not difficult to implement goto as such, it's just a JMP instruction, but (I'm not a compiler developer, but I can imagine) implementing goto without introducing strange bugs or crashes is a bit more difficult.
    - JonChesterfield 2y ago
      Compilers really like canonical forms. There's a good chance that if, for, while, goto, break and so forth all turn into an edge between basic blocks (anything that doesn't have a branch or branch target in it). In a rather literal sense it's usually all sugar over goto, unless you're doing something niche like carefully preserving structure because your target language doesn't have branches. So seeing someone say that their compiler struggles to represent goto throws some doubt on how the thing is implemented. Goto should generally be the easiest possible control flow to translate into your IR.
  - lerno 2y ago

rob74 2y ago

Oh no, another would-be C replacement. I wonder if there is a list somewhere?

ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
Hmm, let me try and ignore anything up to and including ADA and all "C++ replacements" (so no Rust, Carbon, ...): C3, Zig, Austral, Hare, Vale, V, Odin, Jai.
- memsom 2y ago
  I would put Carbon in the list on the right. Zig is more worthy of being on the left, but even then I'm not 100% sure of that statement.

hailruda 2y ago

How does it compare to Zig? Does it inherit C macros?

ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
https://c3-lang.org/references/docs/compare/#zig https://c3-lang.org/references/docs/compare/#zig
JonChesterfield 2y ago
"The old C macro system is replaced by a new C3 macro system."

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]