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Women are socially (and, perhaps, otherwise) conditioned to avoid those society perceives as loser-types. Unfortunately, mathematicians still fit this mold, as

Women are socially (and, perhaps, otherwise) conditioned to avoid those society perceives as loser-types. Unfortunately, mathematicians still fit this mold, as much as I wish it weren't so. This alone largely explains the absence of women in math, much as it explains the absence of women in my field, IT.

reh297 18y ago
Having been a woman for most of my life (and a girl for the rest of it), I can assure you that women don't avoid fields applying mathematics just because they don't want to hang out with loser-types. In fact, I find most women try to pursue things they enjoy, more so than avoid things they may hate (like losers, or long division, per se). If there's a lack of women in IT, it's probably because they don't enjoy it, or aren't encouraged to pursue it. Most women don't make professional decisions hoping to increase their chances of havin' a cutie in the next cubicle.
- gaius 18y ago
  That is true of most adults (of both sexes) however most people (here in the UK at least) choose the general direction of their careers at the age of 14, which is when you choose your GCSEs. You get to tweak it again at 16 when you choose your A-levels (from a subset of your GCSEs) and again at 18 when you choose your first degree, but the decisions made at 14 are so far upstream at this point that you only have so much maneuverability left. Anyway, at 14, I remember that my double-science class was almost entirely male, perhaps 5/25 girls (about 100 people in my year in total). Drama and English had the opposite ratio. Only those 5 girls would even have had the option to take a science or engineering degree, 10% of the females in the year. Now we all know you don't need one of those to work in IT, but still, if you want girls in the field, that's where you've got to catch them.
  - aswanson 18y ago
    Maybe they don't want to be caught, as Greenspun spelled out. The women with the ability seem to have a better life perspective than the men, on average. They prove their better understanding of mathematics by working out the bayesian priors and adjust career goals accordingly.
- quoderat 18y ago
  "Most women don't make professional decisions hoping to increase their chances of havin' a cutie in the next cubicle." Not consciously, anyway. And it doesn't have anything to do with "havin' a cutie," it's more to avoid going into fields with a social stigma associated with them and their typical practitioners. This social stigma is decreasing (even in IT -- "geek" is no longer an insult), but nevertheless it is still there. For whatever reason, women seem to be more influenced by social cues -- or perhaps just influenced differently than men. It's not wrong -- it just is. Therefore, my guess is that a lot of the gender disparity is still extant for social stigma reasons and the concomitant avoidance of that stigma.
  - DaniFong 18y ago
    I think the social stigma argument is oversimplified. Nerds often just trade the standard status hierarchy for another, governed by more nerdly pursuits. Yet positive nerd social spaces and stereotypes for boys are much more accessible than those for girls.

reh297 18y ago

Having been a woman for most of my life (and a girl for the rest of it), I can assure you that women don't avoid fields applying mathematics just because they don't want to hang out with loser-types. In fact, I find most women try to pursue things they enjoy, more so than avoid things they may hate (like losers, or long division, per se). If there's a lack of women in IT, it's probably because they don't enjoy it, or aren't encouraged to pursue it. Most women don't make professional decisions hoping to increase their chances of havin' a cutie in the next cubicle.

gaius 18y ago
That is true of most adults (of both sexes) however most people (here in the UK at least) choose the general direction of their careers at the age of 14, which is when you choose your GCSEs. You get to tweak it again at 16 when you choose your A-levels (from a subset of your GCSEs) and again at 18 when you choose your first degree, but the decisions made at 14 are so far upstream at this point that you only have so much maneuverability left. Anyway, at 14, I remember that my double-science class was almost entirely male, perhaps 5/25 girls (about 100 people in my year in total). Drama and English had the opposite ratio. Only those 5 girls would even have had the option to take a science or engineering degree, 10% of the females in the year. Now we all know you don't need one of those to work in IT, but still, if you want girls in the field, that's where you've got to catch them.
- aswanson 18y ago
  Maybe they don't want to be caught, as Greenspun spelled out. The women with the ability seem to have a better life perspective than the men, on average. They prove their better understanding of mathematics by working out the bayesian priors and adjust career goals accordingly.
quoderat 18y ago
"Most women don't make professional decisions hoping to increase their chances of havin' a cutie in the next cubicle." Not consciously, anyway. And it doesn't have anything to do with "havin' a cutie," it's more to avoid going into fields with a social stigma associated with them and their typical practitioners. This social stigma is decreasing (even in IT -- "geek" is no longer an insult), but nevertheless it is still there. For whatever reason, women seem to be more influenced by social cues -- or perhaps just influenced differently than men. It's not wrong -- it just is. Therefore, my guess is that a lot of the gender disparity is still extant for social stigma reasons and the concomitant avoidance of that stigma.
- DaniFong 18y ago
  I think the social stigma argument is oversimplified. Nerds often just trade the standard status hierarchy for another, governed by more nerdly pursuits. Yet positive nerd social spaces and stereotypes for boys are much more accessible than those for girls.