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This comes across as bamboozlement, based on conflating the actually broadly-accepted right to own property with an imagined right to own land. There is nothing

This comes across as bamboozlement, based on conflating the actually broadly-accepted right to own property with an imagined right to own land. There is nothing in the UNHDR that says people ought to be able to own land. As you already pointed out, any property that a person might own is at best just a temporary structure on land that in most countries also includes other structures provided by other entities. Land itself is widely understood to be a shared resource. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be any controversy over who gets to use it, and the right to freedom of movement wouldn't exist either. Of course it violates human rights to force people out of their homes, but that's because it's wrong to interfere with how people choose to live, not because people have some kind of intrinsic and exclusive right to the land they are currently occupying.

alephnerd 2y ago
> There is nothing in the UNHDR that says people ought to be able to own land Article 17 [0]: 1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. 2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property --------- Land is a form of property in every single definition used in literally every form of jurisprudence. [0] - https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights#:~:text=Article%2017,arbitrarily%20deprived%20of%20his%20property https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma.... Edit: why the negative downvotes to an a proven refutation
- Jensson 2y ago
  Guns are also a form of property, but nobody thinks that declaration says every human has a right to own guns. The right to own property doesn't mean you have the right to own all forms of property, almost nobody thinks you should have the right to own all forms of property. > Edit: why the negative downvotes to an a proven refutation You didn't refute anything, red being a color doesn't mean a color is necessarily red. That is a classic logical mistake to make.
  - berdario 2y ago
    > The right to own property doesn't mean you have the right to own all forms of property Maybe? If you want a specific form of property, and you have the means to acquire it, lots of people would probably think that you should be let owning what you want. Of course "means to acquire" encompasses a lot of situations in which ultimately a person has more power than others: you might have more money than your peers bidding for this property, or it might be an "adverse possession" kind of situation, or anyhow ultimately you get the state/law/authorities to agree with you, which means that you can benefit from the state's monopoly on violence...
- berdario 2y ago
  > Land is a form of property in every single definition used in literally every form of jurisprudence. Not everywhere. At least not in the form of private property that an individual can own > All urban land in China is owned by the Chinese government and is commonly referred to as “state-owned land.” All rural and suburban land is owned by rural collectives (i.e., local groups of farmers) and is commonly referred to as “collective land.” https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/global-corporate-real-estate-guide/asia-pacific/china/topics/real-estate-law https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/global-co... Allowing private ownership of land is a mistake, but thankfully this mistake is not universal

alephnerd 2y ago

> There is nothing in the UNHDR that says people ought to be able to own land Article 17 [0]: 1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. 2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property --------- Land is a form of property in every single definition used in literally every form of jurisprudence. [0] - https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights#:~:text=Article%2017,arbitrarily%20deprived%20of%20his%20property https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma.... Edit: why the negative downvotes to an a proven refutation

Jensson 2y ago
Guns are also a form of property, but nobody thinks that declaration says every human has a right to own guns. The right to own property doesn't mean you have the right to own all forms of property, almost nobody thinks you should have the right to own all forms of property. > Edit: why the negative downvotes to an a proven refutation You didn't refute anything, red being a color doesn't mean a color is necessarily red. That is a classic logical mistake to make.
- berdario 2y ago
  > The right to own property doesn't mean you have the right to own all forms of property Maybe? If you want a specific form of property, and you have the means to acquire it, lots of people would probably think that you should be let owning what you want. Of course "means to acquire" encompasses a lot of situations in which ultimately a person has more power than others: you might have more money than your peers bidding for this property, or it might be an "adverse possession" kind of situation, or anyhow ultimately you get the state/law/authorities to agree with you, which means that you can benefit from the state's monopoly on violence...
berdario 2y ago
> Land is a form of property in every single definition used in literally every form of jurisprudence. Not everywhere. At least not in the form of private property that an individual can own > All urban land in China is owned by the Chinese government and is commonly referred to as “state-owned land.” All rural and suburban land is owned by rural collectives (i.e., local groups of farmers) and is commonly referred to as “collective land.” https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/global-corporate-real-estate-guide/asia-pacific/china/topics/real-estate-law https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/global-co... Allowing private ownership of land is a mistake, but thankfully this mistake is not universal