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> Why are the storage and networking implementations "out of tree" (CNI / CSI)? Given the above question, why is there explicit support for Cloud providers? eg:

> Why are the storage and networking implementations "out of tree" (CNI / CSI)? Given the above question, why is there explicit support for Cloud providers? eg: LoadBalancer supports AWS/GCP/Azure/.. Kubernetes has been pruning out vendor-specific code for a while now, moving it out of tree. The upcoming 1.31 release will drop a lot of existing, already deprecated support for AWS & others from Kubernetes proper. https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/blob/master/keps/sig-cloud-provider/2395-removing-in-tree-cloud-providers/README.md https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/blob/master/keps/... There's some plan to make this non-dosruptive to users but I haven followed it closely (I don't use these providers anyhow). > Why are we generating a structured language (YAML), with a computer, by manually adding spaces to make the syntax valid? There should be no intermediate text-template representation like this one. Helm is indeed a wild world. It's also worth noting that Kubernetes is also pushing towards neutrality here; Helm has never been an official tool, but Kustomzie is builtin to kubectl & is being removed. https://github.com/orgs/kubernetes/projects/183/views/1?filterQuery=+sig%3A%22sig-cli%22&pane=issue&itemId=66600030 https://github.com/orgs/kubernetes/projects/183/views/1?filt... There's a variety of smart awesome options out there. First place I worked at that went to kube used jsonnet (which alas went unmaintained). Folks love CUE and Dhall and others. But to my knowledge there's no massive bases of packaged software like exists for Helm. Two examples, https://github.com/bitnami/charts/tree/main/bitnami https://github.com/bitnami/charts/tree/main/bitnami https://github.com/onedr0p/home-ops https://github.com/onedr0p/home-ops . It'd be lovely to see more works outside Helm. Thanks sysdig for your 1.31 write up, https://sysdig.com/blog/whats-new-kubernetes-1-31/ https://sysdig.com/blog/whats-new-kubernetes-1-31/

deivid 2y ago
> Kubernetes has been pruning out vendor-specific code for a while now, moving it out of tree. I wasn't aware, but it makes sense, and explains the current "confusing" state.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Thanks for the write-up, and especially for storytelling your ability & willingness to wade in & find out! Proper hacker spirit! You did such a great job offering an informative high level view (honing in on the control loop feels like seizing upon a critical insight), & iterating through bits nicely. You were tactful & clear in raising some ongoing qualms, which indeed seem largely correct & frustrating, even to those who started as believers. Thanks thanks, a recommendable article indeed.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  Off topic - thank you for not having a super narrow text layout for your site. It seems like every other website these days has an incredibly narrow text width (I've seen as small as 600px which is so annoying to read). It was like a breath of fresh air to go to your site and have the text be a reasonable width without me having to fiddle with page styles.
mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
Kustomize is builtin to kubectl & is being removed Hadn't heard this until now, I'm a rather happy user after being jaded about Helm 2/3. Do you happen to know if this removal is sentimentally closer to "we don't want to keep maintaining kustomize" or to "we don't want to keep embedding kustomize, please use its binary directly"?
- liggitt 2y ago
  The motivation is more the latter, but it's not at all clear the proposed removal of the embedded kustomize will proceed, given the compatibility implications. See discussion at https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/issues/4706#issuecomment-2165806646 https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/issues/4706#issue... and following.
  - mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
    Thank you for this and your many many other contributions!

deivid 2y ago

> Kubernetes has been pruning out vendor-specific code for a while now, moving it out of tree. I wasn't aware, but it makes sense, and explains the current "confusing" state.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Thanks for the write-up, and especially for storytelling your ability & willingness to wade in & find out! Proper hacker spirit! You did such a great job offering an informative high level view (honing in on the control loop feels like seizing upon a critical insight), & iterating through bits nicely. You were tactful & clear in raising some ongoing qualms, which indeed seem largely correct & frustrating, even to those who started as believers. Thanks thanks, a recommendable article indeed.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
Off topic - thank you for not having a super narrow text layout for your site. It seems like every other website these days has an incredibly narrow text width (I've seen as small as 600px which is so annoying to read). It was like a breath of fresh air to go to your site and have the text be a reasonable width without me having to fiddle with page styles.

mtndew4brkfst 2y ago

Kustomize is builtin to kubectl & is being removed Hadn't heard this until now, I'm a rather happy user after being jaded about Helm 2/3. Do you happen to know if this removal is sentimentally closer to "we don't want to keep maintaining kustomize" or to "we don't want to keep embedding kustomize, please use its binary directly"?

liggitt 2y ago
The motivation is more the latter, but it's not at all clear the proposed removal of the embedded kustomize will proceed, given the compatibility implications. See discussion at https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/issues/4706#issuecomment-2165806646 https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/issues/4706#issue... and following.
- mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
  Thank you for this and your many many other contributions!