5 ms·

Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Uber large business and government is wer

Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding. The reason the numbers are still off is because those same users are using chrome at there house in the evening. There should be a business only metric for browser usage. That would be very interesting.

Kaizyn 14y ago
No, DoD switched from IE6 several years ago.
mayneack 14y ago
Many government offices now have firefox too. Not sure about the ones with higher security concerns, but I know the normal security places have FF.
- bmelton 14y ago
  And to be fair, the divisions in which we're talking about high levels of security aren't using those browsers on the internet anyway, they're locked away in SCIFFs, accessing internal-only applications.
MrVitaliy 14y ago
> Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. With each passing day, this statement made less and less sense to a point of absurd. And that point has been reached a long time ago. I work for Department of Interior (the armpit when compared to DOD) and here its either fully patched IE8, latest Firefox or you are booted off of network. Can DOD be really that archaic and still allow employees to browse wild wild web with IE6?
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  I am not part of the DoD, but as I understand it a lot of entrenched usage of IE6 these days is usually internal apps. So, perhaps they use IE6 for private networks, and use IE8, Firefox, et al for public-facing workstations.
  - beedogs 14y ago
    But IE6 won't even run on new versions of Windows. You'd need to run up a VM on a user's machine with a copy of XP. What's the refresh cycle at DoD? Two decades?
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      So, you just keep using XP. They probably have internal interfaces that aren't forward compatible, and re-factoring anything inside the DoD has got to be stupid expensive.
      - molmalo 14y ago
        I don't know the internals of the DOD, but I bet that it's not too much for the costs (that doesn't seem to be a big problem there), but the human resources being used in other priorities.
    - AndrewDucker 14y ago
      If you have thousands of machines running an OS that works perfectly well for your purposes, then you only upgrade when support lapses, which is 2014 in this case.
      - 27182818284 14y ago
        I'm not buying it. This is the reason always given, and in real life I've not come across this as the actual reason. 99% of the time it is lack of staff and will not lack of "We don't know how to make the adjustments to make it work." I've also seen universities with faculty and staff still using IE7 not because of infrastructure requirements, but just because nobody had come around to upgrade because they hadn't bitched loudly enough.
        recursive 14y ago
        What's the difference? There's no compelling business reason to upgrade.
- paxswill 14y ago
  It's certainly not the entire DoD. Firefox is explicitly supported on most new sites, with specialized plugins available that simplify security setup (install certs, CAC access).
- kamjam 14y ago
  I'm working on a project for a major bank here in the UK, one of the requirements of IE6 and no Javascript. Seriously. It's anal. But it's how their system runs internally, so for management to be able to "test" the new site it needs to work in IE6. What I don't understand is the bank should be promoting use of latest technology. If your online account was robbed of all it's money and they found out yuo are using IE6 (with all its security flaws) what's the likelihood they try to say it was your own fault?
- greyfade 14y ago
  I don't know about the rest of the DoD, but I know that most of the fire brigades on Marine Corps and Army bases are using IE7 or Firefox. But I don't think their CAC-managed systems allow them access to the web at large.
eli 14y ago
I've seen some numbers that are nearly all business users. They've actually improved considerably in the last year or two. IE6 was quite common in certain sectors like government, finance, healthcare, (see if you can guess what those industries have in common) but in late 2010 and early 2011 people finally really started upgrading either to newer versions of IE or, surprisingly, Firefox. IE6 use (even among business) is extremely rare right now. Which makes sense, because very few websites would actually work.
pwaring 14y ago
"Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding" Agreed. About 1/3 of our users - all of whom are insurers or brokers - use IR7
pwaring 14y ago
It's not just large businesses. About 1/3 of our users use IE7, although thankfully there's hardly anyone still on IE6. About 1/2 are still on XP (NT 5.1). Some of these are small companies with <10 employees.
- seanp2k2 14y ago
  Don't forget third-world countries that largely rely on XP. IIRC as of about a year ago, a double-digit percentage of asia was still on XP.
  - takluyver 14y ago
    A double digit percentage overall is still on XP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_system...
chris_wot 14y ago
I would imagine the proportion of DOD users going to an Australia electronics shopping site would be 0.0000000001% of Kogan's total user base.
- marshray 14y ago
  I suspect your estimate is off by a few orders of magnitude. Unless Kogan's user base is larger than the total population of Earth (I know you're out there), then even one of them from the DoD would represent 0.000000014%.
TheCount 14y ago
>most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Do you have any evidence for that? From what I've seen, which is admittedly not comprehensive, this is false.
trebor 14y ago
For one of our clients they had 100k+ hits from IE6/7 alone in the last 30 days. It's not that uncommon a browser, no matter how much it should be.
lukejduncan 14y ago
Ford Motor Company as of a year ago was 100% IE 6. There was talk of change, but all the internal apps only work in IE 6.

Kaizyn 14y ago

No, DoD switched from IE6 several years ago.

mayneack 14y ago

Many government offices now have firefox too. Not sure about the ones with higher security concerns, but I know the normal security places have FF.

bmelton 14y ago
And to be fair, the divisions in which we're talking about high levels of security aren't using those browsers on the internet anyway, they're locked away in SCIFFs, accessing internal-only applications.

MrVitaliy 14y ago

> Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. With each passing day, this statement made less and less sense to a point of absurd. And that point has been reached a long time ago. I work for Department of Interior (the armpit when compared to DOD) and here its either fully patched IE8, latest Firefox or you are booted off of network. Can DOD be really that archaic and still allow employees to browse wild wild web with IE6?

sliverstorm 14y ago
I am not part of the DoD, but as I understand it a lot of entrenched usage of IE6 these days is usually internal apps. So, perhaps they use IE6 for private networks, and use IE8, Firefox, et al for public-facing workstations.
- beedogs 14y ago
  But IE6 won't even run on new versions of Windows. You'd need to run up a VM on a user's machine with a copy of XP. What's the refresh cycle at DoD? Two decades?
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    So, you just keep using XP. They probably have internal interfaces that aren't forward compatible, and re-factoring anything inside the DoD has got to be stupid expensive.
    - molmalo 14y ago
      I don't know the internals of the DOD, but I bet that it's not too much for the costs (that doesn't seem to be a big problem there), but the human resources being used in other priorities.
  - AndrewDucker 14y ago
    If you have thousands of machines running an OS that works perfectly well for your purposes, then you only upgrade when support lapses, which is 2014 in this case.
    - 27182818284 14y ago
      I'm not buying it. This is the reason always given, and in real life I've not come across this as the actual reason. 99% of the time it is lack of staff and will not lack of "We don't know how to make the adjustments to make it work." I've also seen universities with faculty and staff still using IE7 not because of infrastructure requirements, but just because nobody had come around to upgrade because they hadn't bitched loudly enough.
      - recursive 14y ago
        What's the difference? There's no compelling business reason to upgrade.
paxswill 14y ago
It's certainly not the entire DoD. Firefox is explicitly supported on most new sites, with specialized plugins available that simplify security setup (install certs, CAC access).
kamjam 14y ago
I'm working on a project for a major bank here in the UK, one of the requirements of IE6 and no Javascript. Seriously. It's anal. But it's how their system runs internally, so for management to be able to "test" the new site it needs to work in IE6. What I don't understand is the bank should be promoting use of latest technology. If your online account was robbed of all it's money and they found out yuo are using IE6 (with all its security flaws) what's the likelihood they try to say it was your own fault?
greyfade 14y ago
I don't know about the rest of the DoD, but I know that most of the fire brigades on Marine Corps and Army bases are using IE7 or Firefox. But I don't think their CAC-managed systems allow them access to the web at large.

eli 14y ago

I've seen some numbers that are nearly all business users. They've actually improved considerably in the last year or two. IE6 was quite common in certain sectors like government, finance, healthcare, (see if you can guess what those industries have in common) but in late 2010 and early 2011 people finally really started upgrading either to newer versions of IE or, surprisingly, Firefox. IE6 use (even among business) is extremely rare right now. Which makes sense, because very few websites would actually work.

pwaring 14y ago

"Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding" Agreed. About 1/3 of our users - all of whom are insurers or brokers - use IR7

pwaring 14y ago

It's not just large businesses. About 1/3 of our users use IE7, although thankfully there's hardly anyone still on IE6. About 1/2 are still on XP (NT 5.1). Some of these are small companies with <10 employees.

seanp2k2 14y ago
Don't forget third-world countries that largely rely on XP. IIRC as of about a year ago, a double-digit percentage of asia was still on XP.
- takluyver 14y ago
  A double digit percentage overall is still on XP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_system...

chris_wot 14y ago

I would imagine the proportion of DOD users going to an Australia electronics shopping site would be 0.0000000001% of Kogan's total user base.

marshray 14y ago
I suspect your estimate is off by a few orders of magnitude. Unless Kogan's user base is larger than the total population of Earth (I know you're out there), then even one of them from the DoD would represent 0.000000014%.

TheCount 14y ago

>most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Do you have any evidence for that? From what I've seen, which is admittedly not comprehensive, this is false.

trebor 14y ago

For one of our clients they had 100k+ hits from IE6/7 alone in the last 30 days. It's not that uncommon a browser, no matter how much it should be.

lukejduncan 14y ago

Ford Motor Company as of a year ago was 100% IE 6. There was talk of change, but all the internal apps only work in IE 6.