5 ms·

Well yes internal borders work fine when external borders are taken seriously, not when countries are pretty much forced to accept anyone thanks to human traffi

Well yes internal borders work fine when external borders are taken seriously, not when countries are pretty much forced to accept anyone thanks to human trafficking orgs and lax regulation imagined for war times not for "my country sucks" type of problem. > And yet: countries like Denmark are safer and more prosperous than ever before. Maybe ask the Swedes about how things are going there (apart from internet hyperboles, which tend to exaggerate things)

Rinzler89 2y ago
>not with the farce that exists today where "asylum" is used is a get-out-of-jail free card The problem with the current asylum system is basically anyone can come in and say: "look, Russia, US, UK, France and coalition blew up my middle eastern country, so now countries like Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Austria who had nothing to do with it, need to give me asylum to me and my whole family, simple" which makes the system very easy to be gamed as the ECHR forces you to accept anyone who crosses your border and claims asylum with a well rehearsed sob story. So, is there any surprise of the growth of right wind in Europe? The bigger issue is that voting right wing won't solve this since they legally can't, it's not under their control but the ECHR, so we just keep moving right while suffering the same immigration issues making it a double whammy. The solution is to reform the ECHR membership and give sovereignty over asylum policies to the member country instead of an foreign org people can't vote for. Especially now, when Russia and Belarus are weaponizing illegal migration by giving them visa free travel for money to Russia and Belarus so they can then storm the borders with Finland, Norway and Poland. Recently a Polish soldier working the border with Belarus got stabbed on duty by a migrant trying to force the border[1]. This is obviously unacceptable and should mean proper military response against illegal border crossings. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-soldier-dies-after-being-stabbed-by-migrants-border-with-belarus-2024-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-soldier-dies-aft...
- f6v 2y ago
  > Asylum today is basically: "look, Russia, US, UK, France and coalition blew up my middle eastern country, so now countries like Denmark No-no-no, Denmark took an active part in Iraq invasion and was also invaded Libya. Refugee crisis isn’t just about Syria.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Which middle eastern conflict did Austria take part in?
    - stop50 2y ago
      They contributed Troops to the ISAF troops in afgahnistan for example. Correction: wrote Usaf instead of ISAF
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        What? Austria not Australia.
        stop50 2y ago
        Both countries sent troops, australias was much bigger.
      - mikhailfranco 2y ago
        Link? Not in the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_Operation_Enduring_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_Operation_Endu...
        stop50 2y ago
        OEF != ISAF https://web.archive.org/web/20220120001326/http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/epub/pdf/placemat.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20220120001326/http://www.nato.i... OEF is an NATO Operation, Austrias policy is not to join any International primary Military Organization.
        mikhailfranco 2y ago
        OK, good. So ... 3 soldiers (about 20% of Tonga's contribution)
- cenamus 2y ago
  The right wing parties act as if we could just return people to Syria, Afghanistan and whereever just as we wand, no questions asked. That you need to cooperate with these countries to return people there...
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Which we can't really return since that would mean cooperation with the Taliban. And even if we could cooperate, the countries then don't want them back or will demand various favors or bribes in return so then you're basically funding some terrorist regime to return 3 illegal migrants.
ahoka 2y ago
There are very serious checks, what are you talking about?
- raverbashing 2y ago
  Where is evidence for very serious checks?
  - ahoka 2y ago
    Sorry, you are the one making claims (which you edited a multiple times), so I won’t bother answering it more than this: you can read the immigration agencies web site for details.
- tssge 2y ago
  At least in the South of EU there are places with zero checks in place. I mean there are organizations operating in the Mediterranean whose whole purpose is to offer transport for people outside the EU without any checks required. Honestly there isn't anything serious about such lack of checks. I'd say maybe US or Australia or such have serious checks in place -- EU is nowhere even close.
RandomThoughts3 2y ago
Personally, I think you illustrate well my main issue with the EU, which is that I have to live in the same political entity as the bloody racists in the north and the east. Still seem worth it overall nevertheless especially considering I already have to live with our local grown racists here anyway.
- wtcactus 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    An inhabitant of an aging continent with less and less belief in its own future, slowly being consumed by racism and xenophobia despite being desperately in need of a foreign working force who doesn’t want to come and on the verge of succumbing once again to fascism rather than actually facing its own structural issue? Thank you, I think I know who I really am. Do you?
    - raverbashing 2y ago
      Yes, some people are awfully racist, and think even people from 100km away are insufferable Yes, some people are woefully naive and think any kind of immigration is a net gain Most people, thankfully, have a more balanced view of things
      - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        It’s shame none of these people have graced this discussion then because reading the comments here I’m ashamed to be somehow part of the same community.
stop50 2y ago
The Asylum system can be improved(its no way fair that some countries have to cater more asylum seekers than others). Sadly there are no legal ways to get the asylum Status, only the way that you have to cross the border without visum and to declare that you need asylum.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>not with the farce that exists today where "asylum" is used is a get-out-of-jail free card The problem with the current asylum system is basically anyone can come in and say: "look, Russia, US, UK, France and coalition blew up my middle eastern country, so now countries like Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Austria who had nothing to do with it, need to give me asylum to me and my whole family, simple" which makes the system very easy to be gamed as the ECHR forces you to accept anyone who crosses your border and claims asylum with a well rehearsed sob story. So, is there any surprise of the growth of right wind in Europe? The bigger issue is that voting right wing won't solve this since they legally can't, it's not under their control but the ECHR, so we just keep moving right while suffering the same immigration issues making it a double whammy. The solution is to reform the ECHR membership and give sovereignty over asylum policies to the member country instead of an foreign org people can't vote for. Especially now, when Russia and Belarus are weaponizing illegal migration by giving them visa free travel for money to Russia and Belarus so they can then storm the borders with Finland, Norway and Poland. Recently a Polish soldier working the border with Belarus got stabbed on duty by a migrant trying to force the border[1]. This is obviously unacceptable and should mean proper military response against illegal border crossings. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-soldier-dies-after-being-stabbed-by-migrants-border-with-belarus-2024-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-soldier-dies-aft...

f6v 2y ago
> Asylum today is basically: "look, Russia, US, UK, France and coalition blew up my middle eastern country, so now countries like Denmark No-no-no, Denmark took an active part in Iraq invasion and was also invaded Libya. Refugee crisis isn’t just about Syria.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Which middle eastern conflict did Austria take part in?
  - stop50 2y ago
    They contributed Troops to the ISAF troops in afgahnistan for example. Correction: wrote Usaf instead of ISAF
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      What? Austria not Australia.
      - stop50 2y ago
        Both countries sent troops, australias was much bigger.
    - mikhailfranco 2y ago
      Link? Not in the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_Operation_Enduring_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_Operation_Endu...
      - stop50 2y ago
        OEF != ISAF https://web.archive.org/web/20220120001326/http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/epub/pdf/placemat.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20220120001326/http://www.nato.i... OEF is an NATO Operation, Austrias policy is not to join any International primary Military Organization.
        mikhailfranco 2y ago
        OK, good. So ... 3 soldiers (about 20% of Tonga's contribution)
cenamus 2y ago
The right wing parties act as if we could just return people to Syria, Afghanistan and whereever just as we wand, no questions asked. That you need to cooperate with these countries to return people there...
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Which we can't really return since that would mean cooperation with the Taliban. And even if we could cooperate, the countries then don't want them back or will demand various favors or bribes in return so then you're basically funding some terrorist regime to return 3 illegal migrants.

ahoka 2y ago

There are very serious checks, what are you talking about?

raverbashing 2y ago
Where is evidence for very serious checks?
- ahoka 2y ago
  Sorry, you are the one making claims (which you edited a multiple times), so I won’t bother answering it more than this: you can read the immigration agencies web site for details.
tssge 2y ago
At least in the South of EU there are places with zero checks in place. I mean there are organizations operating in the Mediterranean whose whole purpose is to offer transport for people outside the EU without any checks required. Honestly there isn't anything serious about such lack of checks. I'd say maybe US or Australia or such have serious checks in place -- EU is nowhere even close.

RandomThoughts3 2y ago

Personally, I think you illustrate well my main issue with the EU, which is that I have to live in the same political entity as the bloody racists in the north and the east. Still seem worth it overall nevertheless especially considering I already have to live with our local grown racists here anyway.

wtcactus 2y ago
[flagged]
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  An inhabitant of an aging continent with less and less belief in its own future, slowly being consumed by racism and xenophobia despite being desperately in need of a foreign working force who doesn’t want to come and on the verge of succumbing once again to fascism rather than actually facing its own structural issue? Thank you, I think I know who I really am. Do you?
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Yes, some people are awfully racist, and think even people from 100km away are insufferable Yes, some people are woefully naive and think any kind of immigration is a net gain Most people, thankfully, have a more balanced view of things
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      It’s shame none of these people have graced this discussion then because reading the comments here I’m ashamed to be somehow part of the same community.

stop50 2y ago

The Asylum system can be improved(its no way fair that some countries have to cater more asylum seekers than others). Sadly there are no legal ways to get the asylum Status, only the way that you have to cross the border without visum and to declare that you need asylum.