4 ms·

This comes as a surprise to whom exactly? Seems like the ideal scenario for ... insurance. Good health almost always costs nothing, but when an intervention is

This comes as a surprise to whom exactly? Seems like the ideal scenario for ... insurance. Good health almost always costs nothing, but when an intervention is required, it's crazy expensive. -> everybody pays a negligible amount into the kitty. Since everyone pays in and almost noone takes anything out, there's enough there to cover crazy expensive treatments for the few who need them.

hobs 2y ago
No it seems the ideal scenario for cost controlling absurdly over priced medical care.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  This. Why are we blaming people who need medical care for the fact that the system won’t contain costs and is built to maximize extraction and profit? Should these people go without care? Start with destroying pharma benefit managers and Medicare Advantage, and continue hacking and slashing based on cost/time/benefit ratio. https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/medicare-health-insurance-diagnosis-payments-b4d99a5d https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/medicare-health-insura... | https://archive.is/de2f3 https://archive.is/de2f3 (“Insurers Pocketed $50 Billion From Medicare for Diseases No Doctor Treated”) https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/inside-the-mafia-of-pharma-pricing https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/inside-the-mafia-of-pharm... (“Inside the Mafia of Pharma Pricing”) “Your margin is our opportunity.”
  - astromaniak 2y ago
    > Why are we blaming people who need medical care We don't blame them, but without any control we have the highest prices and not so good overall results. Add to that Trump with his industry 'self regulation' idea and you know what's coming...
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    There is a fundamental conflict between first line care and financial efficiency. Countries with successful healthcare institutions use purchasing controls to negotiate. They dont rely on the charity or good nature of suppliers. Instead, they say "thats too expensive, lower the price or we will take the option 90% as good for 10% the cost".
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Yes. That’s what needs to be done.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Related: https://auchincloss.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-auchincloss-introduces-bipartisan-pharmacists-fight-back-act-to-crack-down-on-predatory-drug-pricing https://auchincloss.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-a... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0oacWBHAJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0oacWBHAJY
- hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
  My interpretation of this comment is "It's a shame medical care is so expensive that we need insurance to cover it, rather than being able to cover everything out of pocket even if we get extremely sick".
hylaride 2y ago
The issue isn’t spreading healthcare costs, but that healthcare costs have been skyrocketing, making costs higher whether they’re spread around or not. The price of insulin, which in theory is not protected by patents (there are incremental “improvements” which are, but even the “old” ones are still skyrocketing in price), has almost 10X’d since 2000. Something is very wrong. Same story with epipens and most of the rest of healthcare.
- Taikonerd 2y ago
  The WSJ recently had a story about how America is running out of generic drugmakers: [0] [0] https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/america-is-running-out-of-generic-drugmakers-another-one-is-on-the-brink-dbd8bb17 https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/america-is-running-out-of-...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Zak 2y ago
> everybody pays a negligible amount into the kitty I'm not sure this amount can be negligible even if we were able to make the system economically efficient such that no entities have outsized profit margins. Some things about modern medicine are just expensive. Discovering a new drug and bringing it to market takes a long time and probably has to if we want drugs that work and don't do more harm than good. Growing monoclonal antibodies, which are wonderdrugs for certain conditions, is a resource-intensive process. Even more mundane stuff is expensive. Surgery requires a team of highly skilled professionals. An MRI machine is expensive to own and operate.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  Modern semiconductors are also expensive. Designing a new iPhone and bringing it to market takes a long time. Fabbing the semiconductors is a resource-intensive process. Even more mundane stuff is expensive. There's a team of highly skilled professionals who just deal with the waterproofing gaskets. A lithography machine is expensive to own and operate. ---- Essentially the same arguments apply to semiconductors as medicine yet I can buy an iPhone for <$2k and still give Apple an extremely generous margin on it. That wonderdrug might cost thousands more despite having a fraction of the people involved in its design/manufacturing, most being paid far less. Scale is part of it, but things like insulin or epinephrine are being produced by the ton with simple processes and still cost hundreds of dollars a year for people. It's not certification either, as other countries don't have the same issues or pay the same high prices.
  - a2800276 2y ago
    Yeah, but typically your kids don't die if you can't afford a new iPhone.
    - reverius42 2y ago
      That changes the argument from “it’s expensive to develop new drugs” to “it’s expensive to be the victim of extortion” though.
  - 2y ago

hobs 2y ago

No it seems the ideal scenario for cost controlling absurdly over priced medical care.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
This. Why are we blaming people who need medical care for the fact that the system won’t contain costs and is built to maximize extraction and profit? Should these people go without care? Start with destroying pharma benefit managers and Medicare Advantage, and continue hacking and slashing based on cost/time/benefit ratio. https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/medicare-health-insurance-diagnosis-payments-b4d99a5d https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/medicare-health-insura... | https://archive.is/de2f3 https://archive.is/de2f3 (“Insurers Pocketed $50 Billion From Medicare for Diseases No Doctor Treated”) https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/inside-the-mafia-of-pharma-pricing https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/inside-the-mafia-of-pharm... (“Inside the Mafia of Pharma Pricing”) “Your margin is our opportunity.”
- astromaniak 2y ago
  > Why are we blaming people who need medical care We don't blame them, but without any control we have the highest prices and not so good overall results. Add to that Trump with his industry 'self regulation' idea and you know what's coming...
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  There is a fundamental conflict between first line care and financial efficiency. Countries with successful healthcare institutions use purchasing controls to negotiate. They dont rely on the charity or good nature of suppliers. Instead, they say "thats too expensive, lower the price or we will take the option 90% as good for 10% the cost".
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Yes. That’s what needs to be done.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Related: https://auchincloss.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-auchincloss-introduces-bipartisan-pharmacists-fight-back-act-to-crack-down-on-predatory-drug-pricing https://auchincloss.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-a... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0oacWBHAJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0oacWBHAJY
hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
My interpretation of this comment is "It's a shame medical care is so expensive that we need insurance to cover it, rather than being able to cover everything out of pocket even if we get extremely sick".

hylaride 2y ago

The issue isn’t spreading healthcare costs, but that healthcare costs have been skyrocketing, making costs higher whether they’re spread around or not. The price of insulin, which in theory is not protected by patents (there are incremental “improvements” which are, but even the “old” ones are still skyrocketing in price), has almost 10X’d since 2000. Something is very wrong. Same story with epipens and most of the rest of healthcare.

Taikonerd 2y ago
The WSJ recently had a story about how America is running out of generic drugmakers: [0] [0] https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/america-is-running-out-of-generic-drugmakers-another-one-is-on-the-brink-dbd8bb17 https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/america-is-running-out-of-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Zak 2y ago

> everybody pays a negligible amount into the kitty I'm not sure this amount can be negligible even if we were able to make the system economically efficient such that no entities have outsized profit margins. Some things about modern medicine are just expensive. Discovering a new drug and bringing it to market takes a long time and probably has to if we want drugs that work and don't do more harm than good. Growing monoclonal antibodies, which are wonderdrugs for certain conditions, is a resource-intensive process. Even more mundane stuff is expensive. Surgery requires a team of highly skilled professionals. An MRI machine is expensive to own and operate.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
Modern semiconductors are also expensive. Designing a new iPhone and bringing it to market takes a long time. Fabbing the semiconductors is a resource-intensive process. Even more mundane stuff is expensive. There's a team of highly skilled professionals who just deal with the waterproofing gaskets. A lithography machine is expensive to own and operate. ---- Essentially the same arguments apply to semiconductors as medicine yet I can buy an iPhone for <$2k and still give Apple an extremely generous margin on it. That wonderdrug might cost thousands more despite having a fraction of the people involved in its design/manufacturing, most being paid far less. Scale is part of it, but things like insulin or epinephrine are being produced by the ton with simple processes and still cost hundreds of dollars a year for people. It's not certification either, as other countries don't have the same issues or pay the same high prices.
- a2800276 2y ago
  Yeah, but typically your kids don't die if you can't afford a new iPhone.
  - reverius42 2y ago
    That changes the argument from “it’s expensive to develop new drugs” to “it’s expensive to be the victim of extortion” though.
- 2y ago