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See my other comment here. Sports are cool. Put a stadium bond or tax or whatever on the ballot where I live and I’ll vote for it every time. Everything does

See my other comment here. Sports are cool. Put a stadium bond or tax or whatever on the ballot where I live and I’ll vote for it every time. Everything doesn’t have to make financial sense.

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Billionaires don't need assistance to fund their entertainment venues. When they do want public money to lower the horrible economic burden of supporting their money printer, the public should be equitably treated as an investment partner that gets a proportional share of all revenue.
whatshisface 2y ago
You would benefit if all members of the public bore the costs of your game tickets, but would you benefit if the same principle was applied to things that you didn't want?
- lolinder 2y ago
  I do not participate in or watch any sports, but this logic would preclude public investment in anything whatsoever. I enjoy publicly funded museums. I hang out in publicly funded parks. I check books out of publicly funded libraries. None of these are used universally by all of the taxpayers whose money is used to fund them, but I don't feel guilty for that—I pay for things that they use that I don't use. That's part of the deal. Whether sports need public funding is a good question that's worth exploring, but the mere fact that not everyone would enjoy them is not sufficient reason to not fund them.
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    The difference is that sports stadiums profits go to a billionaire while a public museum’s entry fee, if any, goes back into the museum.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Is there a reason why that has to be the case or is this just an observation of the way things have gone so far? College sports stadiums are often (usually?) used to fund the rest of the school. I don't see any particular reason why that model couldn't be adapted by government bodies if there's demand for publicly funded sports.
      - cool_dude85 2y ago
        Well, sure, one could imagine a structure where subsidizing sports stadiums makes sense. But when people talk about it being bad they usually mean in the world as it more or less exists.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      There's a lot of economic activity generated by big sports venues -- hotel stays, restaurant meals, transportation, merchandise (official and otherwise), broadcasting and reporting work, miscellaneous things just related to having a lot of people in the area or from out of town. Same reason cities fund convention centers, performance art venues, and similar things.
      - op00to 2y ago
        No, at least in my city people drive into the stadium and drive home to the suburbs after. They have easy access to the interstates. The economic impact seems pretty middling to me.
        lolinder 2y ago
        You know this because you've done extensive research, surveying businesses around the stadium to find out what their books look like on days where there are sporting events and on days where there aren't? Or are you just basing it on the fact that traffic is thicker to and from the stadium on days where there are sporting events?
        2y ago
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    I really dislike having a sports stadium near me. The amount of traffic is insane.
- paulcole 2y ago
  Yes! That’s how government works. Not everyone agrees equally and not everyone benefits equally. Also the tickets cost extra.
yumraj 2y ago
> Put a stadium bond or tax or whatever on the ballot Yes, actually they should be put to vote rather than be decided by the city council or whatever. I’ll obviously vote against, but let the majority decide. OTOH, if they are funded by public money, I would expect my ticket to be free or close to free, selection via lottery is fine.
- paulcole 2y ago
  > I would expect my ticket to be free or close to free Why? There are plenty of things that are partially subsidized by the government where private entities benefit. Or do you think all of those should be 100% free to you (which is a fine position to hold)? Remember that while the stadium might be paid for publicly there are still many other costs which aren’t.
  - yumraj 2y ago
    Why should I pay, via my taxes, to build stadiums that lead to profits for private team owners and other corporations. > Remember that while the stadium might be paid for publicly there are still many other costs which aren’t. This is why I also said close to free. I’ll accept if Box seats and some other close seats are paid with, say at least 50-60% being free and distributed via lottery. Ads, concessions, TV rights etc are more than enough to pay for operational costs. If not, I’d like to see the financials and we can discuss how to cover the deficit.
    - paulcole 2y ago
      > Why should I pay, via my taxes, to build stadiums that lead to profits for private team owners and other corporations. You don’t have to! You’re welcome to not pay your taxes. It’s a very powerful political act. Why should anyone pay, via their taxes, to do anything that leads to profits for other people? Because people realize they don’t always get their way and if something is voted into action that they personally dislike, that’s one of the downsides (and upsides) of letting other people vote. In other words: Them’s the breaks.
wsatb 2y ago
The lifetime of stadiums seems to be shrinking every decade. The billionaire owner asking for money to build that state of the art stadium will be asking for another new one in 20 years, when that money could instead be spent on fixing actual problems. Fund your own stadium and maybe it will last longer than 20 years.

See my other comment here. Sports are cool. Put a stadium bond or tax or whatever on the ballot where I live and I’ll vote for it every time. Everything doesn’t have to make financial sense.

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago

Billionaires don't need assistance to fund their entertainment venues. When they do want public money to lower the horrible economic burden of supporting their money printer, the public should be equitably treated as an investment partner that gets a proportional share of all revenue.

whatshisface 2y ago

You would benefit if all members of the public bore the costs of your game tickets, but would you benefit if the same principle was applied to things that you didn't want?

lolinder 2y ago
I do not participate in or watch any sports, but this logic would preclude public investment in anything whatsoever. I enjoy publicly funded museums. I hang out in publicly funded parks. I check books out of publicly funded libraries. None of these are used universally by all of the taxpayers whose money is used to fund them, but I don't feel guilty for that—I pay for things that they use that I don't use. That's part of the deal. Whether sports need public funding is a good question that's worth exploring, but the mere fact that not everyone would enjoy them is not sufficient reason to not fund them.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  The difference is that sports stadiums profits go to a billionaire while a public museum’s entry fee, if any, goes back into the museum.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Is there a reason why that has to be the case or is this just an observation of the way things have gone so far? College sports stadiums are often (usually?) used to fund the rest of the school. I don't see any particular reason why that model couldn't be adapted by government bodies if there's demand for publicly funded sports.
    - cool_dude85 2y ago
      Well, sure, one could imagine a structure where subsidizing sports stadiums makes sense. But when people talk about it being bad they usually mean in the world as it more or less exists.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    There's a lot of economic activity generated by big sports venues -- hotel stays, restaurant meals, transportation, merchandise (official and otherwise), broadcasting and reporting work, miscellaneous things just related to having a lot of people in the area or from out of town. Same reason cities fund convention centers, performance art venues, and similar things.
    - op00to 2y ago
      No, at least in my city people drive into the stadium and drive home to the suburbs after. They have easy access to the interstates. The economic impact seems pretty middling to me.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        You know this because you've done extensive research, surveying businesses around the stadium to find out what their books look like on days where there are sporting events and on days where there aren't? Or are you just basing it on the fact that traffic is thicker to and from the stadium on days where there are sporting events?
        2y ago
- HPsquared 2y ago
  I really dislike having a sports stadium near me. The amount of traffic is insane.
paulcole 2y ago
Yes! That’s how government works. Not everyone agrees equally and not everyone benefits equally. Also the tickets cost extra.

yumraj 2y ago

> Put a stadium bond or tax or whatever on the ballot Yes, actually they should be put to vote rather than be decided by the city council or whatever. I’ll obviously vote against, but let the majority decide. OTOH, if they are funded by public money, I would expect my ticket to be free or close to free, selection via lottery is fine.

paulcole 2y ago
> I would expect my ticket to be free or close to free Why? There are plenty of things that are partially subsidized by the government where private entities benefit. Or do you think all of those should be 100% free to you (which is a fine position to hold)? Remember that while the stadium might be paid for publicly there are still many other costs which aren’t.
- yumraj 2y ago
  Why should I pay, via my taxes, to build stadiums that lead to profits for private team owners and other corporations. > Remember that while the stadium might be paid for publicly there are still many other costs which aren’t. This is why I also said close to free. I’ll accept if Box seats and some other close seats are paid with, say at least 50-60% being free and distributed via lottery. Ads, concessions, TV rights etc are more than enough to pay for operational costs. If not, I’d like to see the financials and we can discuss how to cover the deficit.
  - paulcole 2y ago
    > Why should I pay, via my taxes, to build stadiums that lead to profits for private team owners and other corporations. You don’t have to! You’re welcome to not pay your taxes. It’s a very powerful political act. Why should anyone pay, via their taxes, to do anything that leads to profits for other people? Because people realize they don’t always get their way and if something is voted into action that they personally dislike, that’s one of the downsides (and upsides) of letting other people vote. In other words: Them’s the breaks.

wsatb 2y ago

The lifetime of stadiums seems to be shrinking every decade. The billionaire owner asking for money to build that state of the art stadium will be asking for another new one in 20 years, when that money could instead be spent on fixing actual problems. Fund your own stadium and maybe it will last longer than 20 years.