3 ms·

Fewer people are deciding to have children

9 points by lxm 2y ago

paulpauper 2y ago
careerism. the returns to delaying family formation in terms of income nave never been greater . The ROI of careerism needs to fall for this to change.
- proc0 2y ago
  From my perspective, it's the instability of the world. From market crashes to pandemics and now politics, I have no clue what kind of world I'm bringing new life into, so it gets deprioritized severely. It's something like the Maslow hierarchy of needs, and having a child is at the very top.
  - keybored 2y ago
    I don't see uncertainty. I am very convinced that they will be worse off.
uyzstvqs 2y ago
"deciding" is a very disingenuous word here. More like; current economics cause a lack of stability for people to move forward in their lives.
- sgbeal 2y ago
  Believe it or not, there are people (myself included) who _actively decide_ to "move forward in their lives" without children for reasons having nothing to do with economics or stability. Some of us _don't want_ children.
  - mattpallissard 2y ago
    And to your point, some of us want children and will move forward with that regardless of economics or stability. I don't think the markets influence child rearing as much as the headlines say.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    I did! I know I'd be terrible for them, I'd argue it's for all of our benefit. Being realistic, I like the idea of a family, but I don't want it. I grew up poor without much in the way of parents. I'm now well off, but broken. For better or worse I've perfected self-sufficiency. Were I to start a family, what follows is worse than where things are now. More neglect, anger, and frustration. The best thing I think I can do is stop the cycle. It would be foolish pride or hubris to think I'd be a better parent. Others will have to create more worker bees. I don't want to sustain this hive; it already failed me. Solid 1/5 star rating. It can burn. I'm playing through.
- lalaland1125 2y ago
  > current economics cause a lack of stability for people to move forward in their lives All of our data points in the opposite direction. The more wealth you have, and the more stability you have with government safety nets, the less likely you are to have children.
  - FooBarBizBazz 2y ago
    True, but birthrates start to go back up once you get into very elite quantities. The proles have kids, and the empire-builders have kids. The professionals in the middle don't.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- keybored 2y ago
  "move forward in their lives" is an ingenuous word in this context.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Economics are a component in some cohorts, but only one piece of the puzzle. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-exp... ("57% of adults under 50 who say they’re unlikely to ever have kids say a major reason is they just don’t want to; 31% of those ages 50 and older without kids cite this as a reason they never had them") https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... ("Why more U.S. adults are choosing not to have kids: 64% of young women say they just don't want children, compared to 50% of men.") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 (Educated, empowered women have less children, have them later, or no children; citations within this comment)
ninetyninenine 2y ago
The main cause is birth control. This is an almost definitive causative factor. Humans weren’t naturally designed to make that choice.
JamesLeonis 2y ago
No link to the study, so here it is. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-exp... Some immediate things that jump out at me: * Large rise/drop in those not wanting vs wanting kids since 2018 for the under-50 crowd (10% and 11%, respectively) * 57% of the under-50 just don't want kids. The second is much the same ("focus on other things" 44%). You have to get to the third and fourth reason before external factors come in ("Concerns about the world" 38%, "Can't Afford" 36%) and "concerns about the environment" comes in a distant 5th at 26% * Both under-50 and over-50 who don't/didn't have kids have very positive feelings about it, until it comes to interacting with friends with kids. A full third of respondents report positive job and career outcomes without kids. * A whopping 2/3rds of over-50 have nieces and nephews, which fill the gap for kids. * "About a third of older adults without kids say they, rather than a sibling, would provide more care for their parents." * "78% of single adults under 50 who say they're unlikely to have kids report that this hasn't impacted their dating life."

9 points by lxm 2y ago

careerism. the returns to delaying family formation in terms of income nave never been greater . The ROI of careerism needs to fall for this to change.

proc0 2y ago
From my perspective, it's the instability of the world. From market crashes to pandemics and now politics, I have no clue what kind of world I'm bringing new life into, so it gets deprioritized severely. It's something like the Maslow hierarchy of needs, and having a child is at the very top.
- keybored 2y ago
  I don't see uncertainty. I am very convinced that they will be worse off.

uyzstvqs 2y ago

"deciding" is a very disingenuous word here. More like; current economics cause a lack of stability for people to move forward in their lives.

sgbeal 2y ago
Believe it or not, there are people (myself included) who _actively decide_ to "move forward in their lives" without children for reasons having nothing to do with economics or stability. Some of us _don't want_ children.
- mattpallissard 2y ago
  And to your point, some of us want children and will move forward with that regardless of economics or stability. I don't think the markets influence child rearing as much as the headlines say.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  I did! I know I'd be terrible for them, I'd argue it's for all of our benefit. Being realistic, I like the idea of a family, but I don't want it. I grew up poor without much in the way of parents. I'm now well off, but broken. For better or worse I've perfected self-sufficiency. Were I to start a family, what follows is worse than where things are now. More neglect, anger, and frustration. The best thing I think I can do is stop the cycle. It would be foolish pride or hubris to think I'd be a better parent. Others will have to create more worker bees. I don't want to sustain this hive; it already failed me. Solid 1/5 star rating. It can burn. I'm playing through.
lalaland1125 2y ago
> current economics cause a lack of stability for people to move forward in their lives All of our data points in the opposite direction. The more wealth you have, and the more stability you have with government safety nets, the less likely you are to have children.
- FooBarBizBazz 2y ago
  True, but birthrates start to go back up once you get into very elite quantities. The proles have kids, and the empire-builders have kids. The professionals in the middle don't.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
keybored 2y ago
"move forward in their lives" is an ingenuous word in this context.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Economics are a component in some cohorts, but only one piece of the puzzle. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-exp... ("57% of adults under 50 who say they’re unlikely to ever have kids say a major reason is they just don’t want to; 31% of those ages 50 and older without kids cite this as a reason they never had them") https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... ("Why more U.S. adults are choosing not to have kids: 64% of young women say they just don't want children, compared to 50% of men.") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 (Educated, empowered women have less children, have them later, or no children; citations within this comment)

ninetyninenine 2y ago

The main cause is birth control. This is an almost definitive causative factor. Humans weren’t naturally designed to make that choice.

JamesLeonis 2y ago

No link to the study, so here it is. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-exp... Some immediate things that jump out at me: * Large rise/drop in those not wanting vs wanting kids since 2018 for the under-50 crowd (10% and 11%, respectively) * 57% of the under-50 just don't want kids. The second is much the same ("focus on other things" 44%). You have to get to the third and fourth reason before external factors come in ("Concerns about the world" 38%, "Can't Afford" 36%) and "concerns about the environment" comes in a distant 5th at 26% * Both under-50 and over-50 who don't/didn't have kids have very positive feelings about it, until it comes to interacting with friends with kids. A full third of respondents report positive job and career outcomes without kids. * A whopping 2/3rds of over-50 have nieces and nephews, which fill the gap for kids. * "About a third of older adults without kids say they, rather than a sibling, would provide more care for their parents." * "78% of single adults under 50 who say they're unlikely to have kids report that this hasn't impacted their dating life."